need advice on bearings.

[Alex7747]

okay so about a week ago i realized i had bad compression on my rebuild so today i started taking the engine apart for rings and a hone. then i came across my rod bearings.
what would cause them to do this?? i had good oil pressure and all the bearing clearances were in spec. I mean ALL. i was runnig 10w-30 oil from engine break in till tare down. I'm lost.. but my crank and main bearings were undamaged. Need help!
oil pressure was 13 psi at idle and about 60 at 4k rpm. about 90 at 7k
edit:5w-30

 

[miguelmcv]

Maybe it was just dirt that got in there while assembly.

Did you prime the oil pump before you fire it up?.

 

[Alex7747]

yeah i primed it. and everything was clean during assembly as well.

 

[Tfitch90]

What bearings are these ? (brand)

 

[TSIfreek]

Looks like a bad set of bearings. I got a set of king bearings were the top layer was already starting to flake off I ended up not using them and going with another brand . I say try a set of ACL alumiglides.

 

[delta448]

Oil contamination.

The bearings on the mains are a different kind aren't they?

Looks like the oil had a fair amount of trash in it as well as lost it's viscosity. How bad was the compression? Bad enough to put a bunch of gasoline in the oil?

 

[Alex7747]

the bearings were king. i ordered a set of acl race rod bearings last night. and compression was at 110 so yeah there was some fuel in the oil.

 

[Tfitch90]

Any pics of the journals on the crank ?

 

[E-Rock 87]

It almost looks like there was dirt grime or shavings in the oil passage and it came through the oil passage. Maybe from machining or something.

 

[Alex7747]

Any pics of the journals on the crank ?

the crank journals are 100% okay. ill take some pics and post them up when i have the engine 100% apart.
there wasn't any machining. the crank and all bearings were brand new. the block wasn't honed(the reason why i took it apart again) and the head was left alone. maybe there was a little shaving left in the block or something during assembly? i cleaned the block SUPER clean before i even started assembly so idk really whats wrong.

 

[TSIfreek]

With the top layer ripped off like that in a big chunk its for sure a bearing manufacturing problem as the layers did not bond properly

 

[Alex7747]

With the top layer ripped off like that in a big chunk its for sure a bearing manufacturing problem as the layers did not bond properly

do you think so? because all the bearings were like that(the rod bearings) and the crank was unmarked.

okay so I've been doing some reading on bearings and i was wondering how many of you guys out there use the one piece aluminum bearings over the tri-metal bearings..?
What bearings do you guys recommend?
my gst is my DD and i want the engine to last a LONG while while still wanting performance. the engine will never see over 8k rpm but will be DD to school about 60miles a day, 2-3 days a week. I've read that one piece aluminum(clevite) are better for DD conditions and ACL race series(try-metals) are better for performance(high revving i assume). what do you guys think i should throw in my motor?

PS. I've already ordered ACL race bearings, but I'm considering using some aluminums. clevite. and if i decide to go Clevite, ill return the ACLs.

 

[TSIfreek]

Personally I like ACL alumiglide bearings main and rod bearings as they will last longer than the try metals and will be easier on the crank. I have done the same research your doing and this is were I have gotten my information. Even for a 9000 RPM drag motor I would use the aluminum bearings.

 

[Tfitch90]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/416185-acl-bearings.html I posted this thread not to long ago. Jacksons the machine shop that did my work also posted. So read it and make a decision. I went with the acl alumiglide.

 

[Black-Out]

As stated above multiple times that's definitely oil contamination which can cause stripping like that. You can also see some pitting in there as well. Just make sure that your washing the engine very well and blowing out all the oil passage ways with a proper air nozzle that has a rubber nose on it to ensure all the air is getting through the passages,and all the debris are getting blown out....

William-

 

[Alex7747]

Personally I like ACL alumiglide bearings main and rod bearings as they will last longer than the try metals and will be easier on the crank. I have done the same research your doing and this is were I have gotten my information. Even for a 9000 RPM drag motor I would use the aluminum bearings.

thanks for the advice. i think I'm going to go with aluminum bearings like you did..

As stated above multiple times that's definitely oil contamination which can cause stripping like that. You can also see some pitting in there as well. Just make sure that your washing the engine very well and blowing out all the oil passage ways with a proper air nozzle that has a rubber nose on it to ensure all the air is getting through the passages,and all the debris are getting blown out....

William-

yeah i will defiantly be cleaning all the oil galleys and the WHOLE block and head. ill just take it to my machine shop guy. he said hell hot tank anything for me for free so thats a plus.

 

[Black-Out]

thanks for the advice. i think I'm going to go with aluminum bearings like you did..



yeah i will defiantly be cleaning all the oil galleys and the WHOLE block and head. ill just take it to my machine shop guy. he said hell hot tank anything for me for free so thats a plus.

Clean it again when you get it back from him.....I know machinest are usually good about hot tanking the components but never leave it in someone elses hands when it comes to your engine assembly and wether or not it's been cleaned well enough before assembly....I've seen too many instances where blocks have come back to me still harboring metal shavings despite being hot tanked. Don't take that chance...

William-

 

[BogusSVO]

Did you clean the crank before you installed it? Gun brush the oil galleys in the crank.

The rod bearings are the last to get oil, so any trash/grint in the crank end up in the rod bearings.

Have the big end of the con rod checked for round and size.
Have the crank mic'ed... your eyeballs will not tell you everything about the crank.

 

[Alex7747]

Did you clean the crank before you installed it? Gun brush the oil galleys in the crank.

The rod bearings are the last to get oil, so any trash/grint in the crank end up in the rod bearings.

Have the big end of the con rod checked for round and size.
Have the crank mic'ed... your eyeballs will not tell you everything about the crank.

the crankshaft was brand new, never installed or anything. but i didn't clean it. i assumed it was clean.
my machinist has some rods i sent him a while back already honed so ill be throwing those in as well. along with new pistons, rings and the block bored and honed.
ill send him the crank too so he can look it over.

Clean it again when you get it back from him.....I know machinest are usually good about hot tanking the components but never leave it in someone elses hands when it comes to your engine assembly and wether or not it's been cleaned well enough before assembly....I've seen too many instances where blocks have come back to me still harboring metal shavings despite being hot tanked. Don't take that chance...

William-

i will clean it very throughly once i get it back from my machinist. i know what you mean. thanks for your input, i appreciate it .

 

[BogusSVO]

Alex that was the problem, you assumed, even tho you just bought the crank and it was new out the box. The manufacture of the crank still requires it to be ground and polished, that is the grit/trash/debris that took out the bearings.

As the engine builder, it is up to you to clean everything before assembly.

Never assume that something is clean, even if it is bagged and tagged from a machine shop, or new out the box.

My friends and I have a saying when we work on our cars... "As anal as you want to be."
So clean, wipe till you are happy with it.

 

[Alex7747]

Alex that was the problem, you assumed, even tho you just bought the crank and it was new out the box. The manufacture of the crank still requires it to be ground and polished, that is the grit/trash/debris that took out the bearings.

As the engine builder, it is up to you to clean everything before assembly.

Never assume that something is clean, even if it is bagged and tagged from a machine shop, or new out the box.

My friends and I have a saying when we work on our cars... "As anal as you want to be."
So clean, wipe till you are happy with it.

Yeah you're right about that(me assuming), but i didn't know they still require you to ground and polish the crank, I had no idea. I thought it was just ready to be installed.. I need to start reading before i throw this motor together again.

Oh and bogus, how do you recommend i clean everything?..degreaser and some brushes?(thats what i used to clean everything before i assembled it). I ask because i know you're a machinist that knows his stuff. How do you clean stuff?

 

[TSIfreek]

Even though someone else says its clean I like to use a can a brake clean to really blow out the oil passages just to make sure its spotless as it can be and finish it off with compressed air and WD40 . You can really use what to clean it just rinse it good and use compressed air and some type of oil to prevent rust.
You can never be to clean preping and building an engine.

 

[BogusSVO]

No.. you do not need to have a new crank ground and polished

Brake clean, gun brush and compressed air

I squirt som brake clean in each oil passage, then pass a gun brush thu more brake clean then blow it out with compressed air, if you want hold a clean paper towel at the other end of the oil galley when you blow thu, when the paper towel stays clean, then the passage is clean.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/362154-how-final-wash-engine-block.html

 

[Alex7747]

No.. you do not need to have a new crank ground and polished

Brake clean, gun brush and compressed air

I squirt som brake clean in each oil passage, then pass a gun brush thu more brake clean then blow it out with compressed air, if you want hold a clean paper towel at the other end of the oil galley when you blow thu, when the paper towel stays clean, then the passage is clean.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/362154-how-final-wash-engine-block.html

great write up! thanks for that . how do you recommend i clean the cylinder head? the same way?

 

[BogusSVO]

to clean the head, spray with purple soap (Super clean/purple power) scrub any heavy crud areas, rinse with clear water,blow dry with compressed air, spray with WD40 the valve stems in the runners springs/cams followers