N/T Performance 4g63

[Andrew7DG]

My car is a 1993 N/T Eclipse GS (this is the 4g63) and I like it as a daily driver (gets good gas millage) but I am looking for some ways at least to get the engine to 160-170hp range i think that is reasonable. I just bought it and nothing has been touched or modified.

So there are the basic engine mods in the tuning guide
what are the results of those mods or has people got good results with those mods?

I don't think i will be adding a turbo on anytime soon. What i will probably do later is find a GSX and sell my GS.

I noticed in another form that at one time in 94 that they did make a N/T engine that was rated at 167hp. What did that engine have on it that made it that much faster?

If i do these mods will i lower my MPG once driving in regular conditions (not flooring it in other words)?

If i stroke the engine how much of a hp gain is that and what car in the junk yard to i look for part?

Also where do i find an exaust system for these cars or headers? So far i haven't found anyplace that sells them?

Also i know that this is a newbie question more then it is for this form so don't have to answer it if you don't want to because it has probably been asked a lot

So a 4g63 and the 4g63t use the same engine block right? So what is the difference between them besides the different compression pistons and intake (if i read that right on another page) are the heads different?
Why is it that when you turbo a 4g63 that you should only use 6 psi unlike the 4g63t which can handle 16psi

Thanks for your time

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

"So a 4g63 and the 4g63t use the same engine block right? So what is the difference between them besides the different compression pistons and intake (if i read that right on another page) are the heads different?
Why is it that when you turbo a 4g63 that you should only use 6 psi unlike the 4g63t which can handle 16psi"

The turbo's have the same heads and intake manifold, they have a different exhaust cam. Larger injectors, an injector resistor pack, a different ECU, Oil squirters under the pistons, different flywheel, clutch, transmission, they have a knock sensor, larger fuel pump, different fuel pressure regulator, the list goes on and on.

There are numerous reasons why a NT with a turbo bolted on it will only safely run your claimed 6psi. Mainly compression ratio and fuel delivery. The stock NT fuel system and pump is not up to the task of running boost.

If you want to hit your 170hp mark, spend 500 bucks on a dry nitrous system, put in a 60hp jet, and bolt on some supporting mods (exhaust, intake, header, turbo fuel pump). You can hit your mark with under 1000 invested and still keep all your driveability and gas milage. To get that power out of a non turbo without nitrous will cost you well over a grand.

 

[TimG]

If you want to hit your 170hp mark, spend 500 bucks on a dry nitrous system, put in a 60hp jet, and bolt on some supporting mods (exhaust, intake, header, turbo fuel pump). You can hit your mark with under 1000 invested and still keep all your driveability and gas milage. To get that power out of a non turbo without nitrous will cost you well over a grand.

I'm actually glad that there are people in this forum who actually give good advice. This guy knows what he is talking about.

The K edition on the 4G63 in 1994 was 165HPish. Basically higher compression pistons, different cam lob profiles and a better fuel system. And if you are willing to change all that, you mind as well put on a turbo kit from a broken TSi for under $1k and lengthen the wastegate rod to open at 7psi. Instant 200HP. High comp pistons tuned with 7psi will yield around 200 peak HP.

 

[GSGoinFast]

"So a 4g63 and the 4g63t use the same engine block right? So what is the difference between them besides the different compression pistons and intake (if i read that right on another page) are the heads different?
Why is it that when you turbo a 4g63 that you should only use 6 psi unlike the 4g63t which can handle 16psi"

The turbo's have the same heads and intake manifold, they have a different exhaust cam. Larger injectors, an injector resistor pack, a different ECU, Oil squirters under the pistons, different flywheel, clutch, transmission, they have a knock sensor, larger fuel pump, different fuel pressure regulator, the list goes on and on.

There are numerous reasons why a NT with a turbo bolted on it will only safely run your claimed 6psi. Mainly compression ratio and fuel delivery. The stock NT fuel system and pump is not up to the task of running boost.

If you want to hit your 170hp mark, spend 500 bucks on a dry nitrous system, put in a 60hp jet, and bolt on some supporting mods (exhaust, intake, header, turbo fuel pump). You can hit your mark with under 1000 invested and still keep all your driveability and gas milage. To get that power out of a non turbo without nitrous will cost you well over a grand.

actually the turbo has a different intake cam, more aggressive

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

"actually the turbo has a different intake cam, more aggressive"

Are you saying as well as exhaust cam, or instead of the exhaust cam?

 

[HighPsi92GST]

as well....is what he better mean or his post is :thumbdown

 

[Mike Marnik]

the exhaust cam is the same in the non turbo and the turbo intake is different. SOme mod you could do other than i/h/e would be cams you can use the cams for the turbo cars cuz they are the same u can buy an under drive pulley again same as turbo one. TO answer your question on exhaust you can buy pacesetters i have it i dont know if the other guys like it i guess pacesetter rusts easily but i noticed a difference or you cam go to you local muffler sho and have them bend you one. for header obx has one so look on e-bay for that punishment racing made one but stopped because they werent satisfied so they are trying to design a new one. Intake if u want a hard pipe try e-bay or punishment racing they will be under the sponsors list above i believe go to the non turbo section obviously. Hope this helps.

 

[pc talon]

I'm actually glad that there are people in this forum who actually give good advice. This guy knows what he is talking about.

The K edition on the 4G63 in 1994 was 165HPish. Basically higher compression pistons, different cam lob profiles and a better fuel system. And if you are willing to change all that, you mind as well put on a turbo kit from a broken TSi for under $1k and lengthen the wastegate rod to open at 7psi. Instant 200HP. High comp pistons tuned with 7psi will yield around 200 peak HP.

Tim, what is this "K edition" you are speaking of? Got any more info, what was it in?
I remember reading that the 2GNT in Europe, which used the 4G63 unlike the USA, has 150hp, 15 higher than a 1GNT. I chalked that up to DIN vs. SAE rating though.

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

I wouldn't reccomend pacesetter to my worst enemy. I had their header and exhaust, both of which broke numerous times or fit like sh1t. I have a borla stainless header and stock exhaust with a muffler and punched out cat, works fine for my applications.

 

[Mike Marnik]

Ya i didnt hear any think about pacesetter till after i bought the exhaust i havent had any problems with it yet and it fit great the stock muffler sounded like crap tho i had that off within a day with a nice sounding straight threw i will not get their header tho. the borla headers are limited tho arent they and expensive because they are not made any more and well are borlas and borla is expensive?

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

Yeah the header was 450.00 or whatever from MachV.com. The quality is unreal though, definitely worth the price. I ended up welding my pacesetter header about 3 times because it broke all the time. The OBX one looks like the exact same design as the Pacesetter...The exhaust always hit the underside of my rear valence, or where the pipe snakes over the rear axle. Plus it sounded like a honda

 

[LaserDad91]

Speaking of headers for N-A’s, what style are you guys running? 4-2-1’s or 4 => 1 and why did you choose that particular design? I have heard the 4-2’s are good for low – mid range and the 4 – 1’s help top end, can anyone verify for a N.A.

I would also assume, if you’re going to run the more aggressive cams, the GM MAFT with translator would also help? Or is the stock ECU able to effectively compensate? Of course this would start to affect fuel milage, etc. some.

Oh and another mod you would want to consider is the LSD mod for the FWD differential.

Thanks in advance.

 

[GSGoinFast]

as well....is what he better mean or his post is :thumbdown

nope, i meant instead. and as you can see from the post after yours, im 100% correct. so it looks like my post is

 

[TimG]

Tim, what is this "K edition" you are speaking of? Got any more info, what was it in?
I remember reading that the 2GNT in Europe, which used the 4G63 unlike the USA, has 150hp, 15 higher than a 1GNT. I chalked that up to DIN vs. SAE rating though.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5986

Read the first bit of this article.

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

ok...So according to that article 167hp requires only a turbo intake cam and a better fuel setup... That doesn't sound all that correct, unless there are other differences that were not listed.

Also he claims not to go over a 25 shot on the nitrous...I consistently run a 65 shot without any problems...

I'd take that information with a grain of salt.

 

[GSGoinFast]

ok...So according to that article 167hp requires only a turbo intake cam and a better fuel setup... That doesn't sound all that correct, unless there are other differences that were not listed.

Also he claims not to go over a 25 shot on the nitrous...I consistently run a 65 shot without any problems...

I'd take that information with a grain of salt.

it had higher compression pistons too.

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

A non turbo in 135hp trim has 9.0:1 compression.

 

[na90dsm]

turbo intake cam,pulleys,header,cat back,test pipe,injen intake, ignition will put you to abotu 165-170hp. fuel will need ot be tuned with salightly larger injectors, maybe 390's tuned down.

the turbo block is the exact same less oil squirters as our n/a block. im usin one to build my big rod motor and ill actually have better oil pressure to the places its needed rather then using the squirters. a lot of major companies use the n/a blocks because they dont have to block the squirters off. its allready done.

also i aborted my n/a project and i have turbo tsi cams here so if anyoen is interested i have those, a turbo fuel rail, 450cc ionjectors and i will be porting a few intake manifolds otu to 75mm to fit mustang tb as well. the intake mani should net a few extra hp with larger cams. comsidering ive read guys using 50 trims and such have made upwards of 450hp on stock cams and internals i think the turbo intake cam has a lot on the n/a cam

 

[HighPsi92GST]

nope, i meant instead. and as you can see from the post after yours, im 100% correct. so it looks like my post is

you must be right. someone bought turbo cams from me about 2 weeks ago and said they were going to throw out the intake cam because they only wanted the turbo exaust cam.
haha so i assumed that the exhaust cam was better/different in turbo cars.

sorry to call you out on your post

 

[GSGoinFast]

you must be right. someone bought turbo cams from me about 2 weeks ago and said they were going to throw out the intake cam because they only wanted the turbo exaust cam.
haha so i assumed that the exhaust cam was better/different in turbo cars.

sorry to call you out on your post

its no problem, i make retarded mistakes on my posts some times but i was pretty sure this time i hadnt.

 

[Totaled2Talons]

I love hearing people say "put nitrous on it" since nitrous isn't suitable for a daily driver! Ugh... :thumbdown: My Talon is my daily driver, and I just want it to be a bit quicker so I don't feel like I'm lagging behind.

I have a full PaceSetter exhaust (header and catback) with a $25 eVo Version "high-flow" cat off eBay and it gave me a noticeable increase in power. I'm not going to throw numbers at you since I have no way of measuring hp. The PaceSetter muffler is a little choppy sounding for my taste, but that may be caused by the straight-through cat.

The whole exhaust system went into the car in about an hour and a half, working on my back in the garage with hand tools. I had to have a buddy of mine weld the middle section after the cat because it wouldn't bolt together right, but I prefer the weld anyway.

I also have a hard intake pipe and a cut air box with a K&N filter. Again, noticable power increase. I have a 3" MAF sitting on my desk that's waiting for a MAF Translator. Punishment Racing N/A sells a Translator that's "adapted" for N/T cars, but all they do is hack off the plug and put on a different one.

From there, I'm going with a MSD DIS-2 ignition (with a tach adapter) and a fuel system. Injectors are kinda hard to find for our N/T cars, since they use high impedance. I know Project ES, and he wired in a resistor pack for his turbo swap, and said it wasn't too difficult.

Now, once you've done all this, and you don't think you have more power, then go with a nitrous system. The Translator has an auxillary wire that can be triggered by a nitrous system. This will allow you to run a dry system like a wet system by adding more fuel through your bigger injectors.

 

[GSGoinFast]

I love hearing people say "put nitrous on it" since nitrous isn't suitable for a daily driver! Ugh... :thumbdown: My Talon is my daily driver, and I just want it to be a bit quicker so I don't feel like I'm lagging behind.

Whoa guys hes right, i, and many other people havnt been running nitrous on our daily drivers for a while now.

 

[Ralli///Art GS]

Whoa guys hes right, i, and many other people havnt been running nitrous on our daily drivers for a while now.

Yeah man, you lose all your drivability when the nitrous is turned off....... :laugh: Totaled don't post unless you have first hand knowledge of the subject, and you obviously don't.

 

[Totaled2Talons]

Yeah man, you lose all your drivability when the nitrous is turned off....... :laugh: Totaled don't post unless you have first hand knowledge of the subject, and you obviously don't.

??

Ya, cause you know what I've done. I had a Civic with some mild mods (intake, exhaust, ACT clutch) and a N/X dry kit. It was a daily driver. The nitrous was completly pointless because I'd use it all up and there went my fun, then my car was slow again until I filled the bottle again. How is that useful on a daily driver?!?! I'd waste my money constantly refilling my bottle, when I could have saved the money and put it into better mods that would have given me the same level of power 24/7.

Don't post if you're just gonna trash people.

 

[GSGoinFast]

??

Ya, cause you know what I've done. I had a Civic with some mild mods (intake, exhaust, ACT clutch) and a N/X dry kit. It was a daily driver. The nitrous was completly pointless because I'd use it all up and there went my fun, then my car was slow again until I filled the bottle again. How is that useful on a daily driver?!?! I'd waste my money constantly refilling my bottle, when I could have saved the money and put it into better mods that would have given me the same level of power 24/7.

Don't post if you're just gonna trash people.

most people dont always have there nitrous system turned on when they drive. and how could you use it enough that you had to keep filling it up all the time and you kept running out? my bottles last me a month at a time at least. and it would take a TON of refills to cost the same amount of money that a mod that would give you that amount of power all the time would. its $30 a refill on a 10 lb bottle, not bad at all.