My cam selections (GSC S2 vs Kelford 272)

[BigBeans]

The Setup:

-2.0L
-Ported head
-1mm oversized valves
-BC springs/retainers
-JMF Race manifold (coming soon)
-Bored throttle body
-FP3052 turbo


The goals:

-Emphasize power from 5k-8k rpm. In the interest of engine life, i plan on keeping my rev limiter at 8250
-Leave room to grow for a 35R if i should decide to go that route next year.
-Not over-cam it and lose more midrange torque than necessary.
-Max the turbo with a useful powerband
-500whp on pump gas and meth.


I'm currently running HKS 264/272 cams, which were a great torque setup with a 16G. With the requirements of this turbo, it's time to go larger.

The two cams i'm considering most seriously are the GSC S2s and the Kelford 272s.

Specs on the cams are:

S2-------ADV Duration------Duration @ 1mm------Peak Lift ------CenterLine
Intake-------274 --------------- 228 ----------------11.0mm----------107
Exhaust --- 274 --------------- 228 ----------------11.0mm----------113

Kelford --ADV Duration------Duration @ 1mm------Peak Lift ------CenterLine
Intake-------272 --------------- 226 ----------------11.0mm-----------107
Exhaust --- 272 --------------- 226 ----------------11.0mm-----------113


If you think another cam selection would be better, please suggest it. I am not limiting myself to these cams, they are what i'm leaning towards.

Thanks for your help.

-Matt

 

[e85_4g63]

Of those 2, the Kelfords would be your better choice with the 3052.

 

[BigBeans]

Of those 2, the Kelfords would be your better choice with the 3052.

It seems like the Kelfords produced about 15 more peak horsepower than the GSCs in the AMS test, which i would assume is due to the accelerated ramp rate?

They also produced more torque all the way from spool-up to the rev limiter.

So far, it seems like the Kelfords are the way to go.

 

[pboglio]

The GSC2's supposedly came out with an improved grind that matches the Kelford 272 performance. The specs you listed show that this is possibly the upgraded one.

 

[BigBeans]

The GSC2's supposedly came out with an improved grind that matches the Kelford 272 performance. The specs you listed show that this is possibly the upgraded one.

I'll certainly keep that in mind.

With the delta kelford grinds selling for $350, i might have to pick up a set of those.

Assuming they really are the same grind, the extra $200 for the authentic Kelfords or GSCs just doesn't make much sense.

 

[dsmusmc]

Bring this back. Im going back and forth between the decision on Kelford and GSC cams. Both are very similar but is the difference enough to pick one over the other? Even though it was just one test Kelfords have a little more peak HP and the GSCs look to have a little better ramp rate but sense then slightly changed there grind specs. I have a more displacement so ramp rate probably wont matter much and both seem to have the range im looking for.

 

[BigBeans]

Bring this back. Im going back and forth between the decision on Kelford and GSC cams. Both are very similar but is the difference enough to pick one over the other? Even though it was just one test Kelfords have a little more peak HP and the GSCs look to have a little better ramp rate but sense then slightly changed there grind specs. I have a more displacement so ramp rate probably wont matter much and both seem to have the range im looking for.

The difference for me was price. The Delta K272s are $350 vs $600+for the S2s.

The performance of the 2 is very similar so considering the price difference the decision was clear for me, and the cams have held up perfectly and the powerband is exactly what i was looking for.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/387215-delta-k272-impressions.html

 

[dsmusmc]

I was more then likely doing the K272's if I went the Kelford route.

 

[daren_p]

I don't have personal experience with the GSC cams but according to one of their tech guys & looking at their specs (they have done several revisions on their cams), the S2's should be more aggressive then the Kelfords's.

Believe the GSC's have even more ramp rate then the Kelfords. From what I recall, they also have more lift & duration. I would assume the GSC's would win for top end power & the Kelfords mights have abit better bottom/mid, but thats without actual experience & sometimes specs don't tell you the whole story.

For a 3052, think I would personally go with the Kelfords, as I know guys making lots of power on them (way more then a 3052 can) & they might actually give you a larger powerband as the S2's might be too "aggressive" for that size of a turbo. With a 35R series, it would be a toss up, as the Kelfords will still make great power on this frame of turbo.

 

[BogusSVO]

@DSMUSMC..... no matter what cams you select... make sure you use the cam makers recommened valve spring/retainer package.

both are really agressive, and most springs will have isses dealing with the cam profile.

 

[dsmusmc]

@DSMUSMC..... no matter what cams you select... make sure you use the cam makers recommened valve spring/retainer package.

both are really agressive, and most springs will have isses dealing with the cam profile.

I have Kiggly springs. I have a 2.2 stroker (92mm) so im not to worried about the lower end and still have a higher rev limit.

OP- Sorry not trying to steal your thread.

 

[Imback]

I was just looking into these two set's of cam's my self . My current bc 280's are nice but i would like a broader power curve with out sacrificing top end.

 

[BogusSVO]

dsmUSMC... doubt this is a thread jack, last post before you brought it up was 1Mar10

If you have the Kiggley BEEHIVES, you should be fine as long as the springs were set up properly

you both ought to take the time and read this whole thread

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

Kelton has had some issues but has taken time to dyno several sets of cams.

From what I have come to understand the Kelford cams are great for upper end HP, the BC have a decent DD quality to them.

 

[BigBeans]

dsmUSMC... doubt this is a thread jack, last post before you brought it up was 1Mar10

If you have the Kiggley BEEHIVES, you should be fine as long as the springs were set up properly

you both ought to take the time and read this whole thread

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

Kelton has had some issues but has taken time to dyno several sets of cams.

From what I have come to understand the Kelford cams are great for upper end HP, the BC have a decent DD quality to them.

I'm running the Ferrea beehives. With reduced overlap the car runs nice and smooth, but doesn't have much power below 2500rpm. The powerband from 4500-7500 is awesome.

 

[BogusSVO]

@BigBeans.... On paper I like the specs of the Ferrea springs of the kiggley

Glad your back up and running!

 

[dsmusmc]

Iv read Keltons thread and still only have interest in Kelford or GSC cams for the top end im looking for and will never put BC junk in my car.

 

[BogusSVO]

dsmusmc.. cool its your ride build it your way!!

Now why do you think BC is junk?

 

[91stocker]

dsmusmc.. cool its your ride build it your way!!

Now why do you think BC is junk?

because he heard it on the interwebs, duh.

Ive seen a 750awhp build that used BC cams. From keltons thread they did very well also. Gains across the board with no loss down low. Ive ran the 280's in my last car, i wouldn't have a problem running them in my next build.

 

[dsmusmc]

dsmusmc.. cool its your ride build it your way!!

Now why do you think BC is junk?

I know a few people that were running them that had some problems but that may have just been them. One was making almost 700whp with no problem then switched to K272's and made alot more power with a much better power range. They are under powered compared to every other cam in the category and they are smaller then advertised but Kelfords are larger then advertised so cant really compare them. There has been the problem with the shafts breaking but I personally dont know anyone with that problem but is enough to steer me away from them. Besides there would need to be a BC 288's tested to compare to the K272's sense they have the similar specs. Personally they just are not my choice.

because he heard it on the interwebs, duh.

Ive seen a 750awhp build that used BC cams. From keltons thread they did very well also. Gains across the board with no loss down low. Ive ran the 280's in my last car, i wouldn't have a problem running them in my next build.

Wow you nailed that one. Is the interwebs the same place you go to act like a bad ass? Go ahead and use them with your next build I prefer something worth while. If you dont have anything to help with the thread then get the f**k out. The whole reason for this thread is choosing Kelfords or GSC's I didnt see BC in the title anywhere and have no interest in them. Proof more DSMer's are to cheap to do it right and that this site is becoming more of a joke due to those kinds of people.

 

[BogusSVO]

dsmusmc.. i was the one that brought up the BC cams, and I wanted to know hy you thought they were junk.

I install alot of BC products, and yet to have the first valve spring break, or seen a snapped cam.
the failures of BC products I have seen or read about, the all go back to improper use of, or improper installation.

The cams underperforming? well some other cam will always out perform.

 

[dsmusmc]

The cams underperforming? well some other cam will always out perform.

There will always be something "new and better" out there. I waited for results before I jumped on the band wagon.

 

[91stocker]

Besides there would need to be a BC 288's tested to compare to the K272's sense they have the similar specs. Personally they just are not my choice.

You realize they purposely mislabeled their cams to make them seem as if they out perform others in the same category right. k272's are larger then all other brands 280's. Extremely misleading and sneaky.

They are also a different brand then "Crower" and also different then the bc that makes bc coilovers. All different.

From keltons thread the bc cams performed well compared to the brands he tested.

I brought up the "u heard on the web" because i hear alot of people bash bc cams and never have a reason why. Most times they confuse them with crower cams which are entirely different. Or they fail to properly degree them or even know how or why to.

quote from kelton
"I was recently ask in a private message what cam would I recommend for a particular set up . I was a little reluctant to answer but with my set up I would have to say I would recommend the BC 272s. These cams on the dyno produced the same hp down low as my hks 264s but made more hp up top. They are very streetable and very compatable with the stock intake manifold. After testing two set of cams the bc 272s is what I plan on running if I keep the stock intake manifold. "

"Well guys as you know my turbo died and I am in the process of replacing it with a new unit. But before the turbo passed I was able to do a couple of hard WOT pulls with the Bc 280s and I must say I am somewhat impressed. The cams pull really nicely from down low to up top I have my redline set at 8000rpm and the cam will bounce that like a basket ball no joke very different than with the Bc 272s which is in my opinion a very drivable very good low end power cam.

I will say make no mistake about it the 280s are not your typical drop in and go cams you will need adjustable cam gears to be able to make the necessary degreeable adjustments and This is understandable since the 280s are borderline race cams. Even with the cam gears It took me a little while to find a happy settings But I must say the time spent is well worth the results I get excellent gas mileage, very good power throughout my rpm band with excellent upper rpm power. I ended up with a setting of 7* advance on the exhaust cam and 2* retard on the intake cam best setting so far for my set up! when my new turbo gets in I will get it on the car and get this thing dynoed asap!"

quote from another member
"There wasn't much difference going from BC272's to the K272's; 300rpms worse spool, traded a bit of torque for a bit of hp, airflow is lower until the higher rpms where it's slightly higher."

Im not saying go out and buy some bc cams, im just saying they perform very well to comparable size cams. They dont pretend to be smaller then they really are.

 

[dsmusmc]

Im not going to lose sleep over a few hundred RPM's of spool difference my displacement will make up for that. I also have the rod ratio for high RPM shifts so im looking for something with top end. Yes I realize K272's and GSC2's are closer to 280's that's why those are the two im looking at and why I only care about those two. I realize you have to degree them that's why I have cam gears. If I wanted drop in and go I would look at HKS or kept my Comp200's. I have a 2.2 with a 37R sized turbo planning on 9K shifts not a 16g I DD.

 

[2gGSX]

I'm in the same boat with a 2.3L and a decent sized turbo--I'm not even considering the BC280s not because they're "BC junk", but because they don't have the same duration/lift as Kelford/GSC cams.

Their new BC284/280 looks much more interesting though. 230/226*, 11.4/10.9mm lift. Similar to the Kelford 280's, with less duration.

Can't comment on ramp rates and what not.

 

[dsmusmc]

I believe I talked to Greg at GSC yesterday. Great guy and knows his shit about our platform. He also suggested S3's due to displacement and high RPM's.