My 420A Race Car!!!!!

[crab1092]

I too am anxious to hear about any head lifting....

 

[DSM-ZERO]

Ran into some wiring issues today will try again on monday..SORRY GUYS

 

[bullettdsm]

Hmm, I understand the post deletions but I think my original question on head lifting was pretty legitimate. There are a few references out there about heads lifting above 400whp. This could be the weak point in any 420a power build (if true). That's why I made the original request of info on Zero's head lifting; As I do again.....

MB

 

[Slippi84]

Hmm, I understand the post deletions but I think my original question on head lifting was pretty legitimate. There are a few references out there about heads lifting above 400whp. This could be the weak point in any 420a power build (if true). That's why I made the original request of info on Zero's head lifting; As I do again.....

MB

Why don't we just ask awddynamite I'm pretty sure he would have delt with it if it's true. He mad like 440 or something like that.

 

[1slow97]

Zero, did they put Crank Straps on, for the bottom of the block.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Hmm, I understand the post deletions but I think my original question on head lifting was pretty legitimate. There are a few references out there about heads lifting above 400whp. This could be the weak point in any 420a power build (if true). That's why I made the original request of info on Zero's head lifting; As I do again.....

MB

Oops... got a little delete-happy; didn't mean to remove that one...

 

[DSM-ZERO]

I believe the heads lift do too poor efficiency range on the turbos at high boost levels.
This will cause alot of hot air going into the headthus causing it to lift........Now im pretty sure there are many reasons for every occasion in wich a head lifts but IMO this would be the main reason why..

Now Crab1092

brought tis problem up to me a couple weeks ago and since then i have done some home work and looked into it.

here are some solutions i came up with.
I can re-heat treat the head studs i have now to raise there strength BUT heat treat it too much and the threads become too brittle.
or
I can buy some L19 or H11 head studs but they are very expensive $1200-1400$ for a set....BUT they have a higher tinsel strength..

I believe that off the shelf ARP's have a strength of 180
Re- heat reated will have a strength of around 280
L19 and H11 have a strength of 320

SO WHAT AM I GONNA DO....right now NOTHING i think ill be fine, but if the head dose lift i might go out and get some L19 or re-heat treat some ARP 2000 head studs

 

[DSM-ZERO]

Zero, did they put Crank Straps on, for the bottom of the block.

What are Crank Straps???? Sorry for my ignorance

 

[crab1092]

When i contacted ARP about getting some L19 studs made, I inquired about re-heat treating the regualer 8740 studs. The guy told me that they could treat the studs to make them have more tensile strength, but then they would become more brittle. As i said on one of my PM's, i think if ARP could just reheat their regular studs, then they would do it as part of their regular manufacturing process.

I am going to get some L19 studs. I am trying to get more people together so that we can afford them. I have not had any problems with my head lifting yet, but i want to stop it before it happens.

Now as far as your point on the turbo being out of its efficiency range i think you are right. The turbo would definetly be shooting out hot air which would in turn cause more detonation. This would definetly cause enough cylinder pressure to lift the head.

The head lifting is not unique to our engines. 4g63 guys have been using L19 studs to fight headlifting for a while now.

 

[Slippi84]

I don't know how applicable it is but Chris Rado welded his head to the bloc or something of that nature on his scion tc drag car. For the average guy this is def not an option but for you zero you might want to look into it and if it's even possible with our engines.

 

[crab1092]

Scions engines are aluminum block and head. Ours are not. Even if you wanted to, you cant weld aluminum to cast iron.

 

[Slippi84]

Scions engines are aluminum block and head. Ours are not. Even if you wanted to, you cant weld aluminum to cast iron.

Yeah that'swhat I was afraid of. I didn't know for sure so that's why i stated that I didn't know if it was even appicable. Oh well.

 

[DSM-ZERO]

I guess now the valve cover is off and we are going with hydraulic lifters...

 

[bullettdsm]

I guess now the valve cover is off and we are going with hydraulic lifters...

Don't get worried about that. Its a good choice. I personally know 2 guys who took that route (yes 4g63, but high horsepower, high rev, 2.0 application). They put them on, tried to get them to work for awhile and finally pulled them and gave up on them.

I have only read about a couple of guys on the Neons board that the solids worked out for (and that's only their claim). I understand the theory behind using them, just haven't seen them work real well.

But that does beg the question of why you would go with the DCR oil retrictor if you already had solids? Although now you may need it.

MB

 

[DSM-ZERO]

Yea we have been talking alot with Darrell Cox Racing about this issue and others. This is what he suggested and he runs the same set up on his drag car "the red sled"..Were Gonna use SRT4 hydraulic lifters and have them cut to size so they fit

 

[Slippi84]

Yea we have been talking alot with Darrell Cox Racing about this issue and others. This is what he suggested and he runs the same set up on his drag car "the red sled"..Were Gonna use SRT4 hydraulic lifters and have them cut to size so they fit

When's the next scheduled dyno day after the lifter install? I'm not sure how open they would be or how available they are but it just seems more logical to me to just call hahn and ask them what they delt with with since they worked with the same platform and goals you are.

 

[DSM-ZERO]

As far as Dyno goes I hope by friday?

In the past i tried calling HAHN and never could get anything out of them...

Call PFI 970-377-2216....I call early in the day

 

[Slippi84]

As far as Dyno goes I hope by friday?

In the past i tried calling HAHN and never could get anything out of them...

Call PFI 970-377-2216....I call early in the day

I figured as much. WHat's PFI. Around here that's Parts For Imports.

 

[all_motor_mike]

Yea we have been talking alot with Darrell Cox Racing about this issue and others. This is what he suggested and he runs the same set up on his drag car "the red sled"..Were Gonna use SRT4 hydraulic lifters and have them cut to size so they fit

the lifters are the exact same dimensions so there is no need to have them "cut to size", and if ## talking to darrell why dont u ask him about using his 1/2" head bolts?


mike

 

[DSM-ZERO]

I do need to machine the lifters a little bit due to to lobe on my cams
I have looked into the half inch head studs and I plan on doing them in the future and on my next block

 

[crab1092]

When you guys say using 1/2" studs are you saying using 8740 chromoly studs? If so i do not see the point in getting a block re-tapped if stock size l19 studs have the same, if not more clamping force than 1/2" 8740 studs. I mean wouldn't you still have to get custom made 1/2 studs?

And as far as getting help from HAHN's, when i asked what spark plugs they ran in their eclipse when they were spraying, they told me BkR6e's. That right there was enough for me to just start figuring things out myself.

I was looking at Darrell Cox website. THey sell H11( arp's L19) studs for the SRT4. Can someone tell me the difference between their headstuds and ours?

 

[Slippi84]

When you guys say using 1/2" studs are you saying using 8740 chromoly studs? If so i do not see the point in getting a block re-tapped if stock size l19 studs have the same, if not more clamping force than 1/2" 8740 studs. I mean wouldn't you still have to get custom made 1/2 studs?

And as far as getting help from HAHN's, when i asked what spark plugs they ran in their eclipse when they were spraying, they told me BkR6e's. That right there was enough for me to just start figuring things out myself.

I was looking at Darrell Cox website. THey sell H11( arp's L19) studs for the SRT4. Can someone tell me the difference between their headstuds and ours?

??? Kinda not sure what yor saying here. Are yo saying that they bs'ed you and you pretty much gave up on their help or what????

 

[crab1092]

All i can say is BKR6e's are too hot to even run high boost, much less high boost plus nitrous. They never seemed to want to take the time to help me out very much. Simply put is if i need help i do not even bother to call them. I do not trust much of what they say.

Mods: I do not want to start a bashing so please delete if you think this will fire one up.

 

[totaleclipse_05]

All i can say is BKR6e's are too hot to even run high boost, much less high boost plus nitrous. They never seemed to want to take the time to help me out very much. Simply put is if i need help i do not even bother to call them. I do not trust much of what they say.

Mods: I do not want to start a bashing so please delete if you think this will fire one up.

How are they too hot? They are the stock range plug for the 420a. Plenty of people have used those plugs with nitrous before.

 

[Slippi84]

How are they too hot? They are the stock range plug for the 420a. Plenty of people have used those plugs with nitrous before.

Well they are fools. Rule of thumb one or two steps colder and that's just with all otor with nitrous throw boost in there and your playing with fire.