My 2G already has a 14B...would a big t28 be a headache?

[carvinbassplyr]

Like the title states I bought my 2G awd Tsi with a 14B mod/upgrade already done to it. Since it's already been converted to the 1G style turbo setup would attempting to put a Big t28 just be a counterproductive headache? The only reason I ask is because I know the Big t28's are rated @ 350hp which is exactly what I'm shooting for. I'm trying to get a turbo with the least amount of lag that will get me to 350 awhp for daily/street driving.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

Would the 34mm flapper optional on some 7cm housings be sufficient enough to help with boost creep?

 

[empie1]

Would the 34mm flapper optional on some 7cm housings be sufficient enough to help with boost creep?

That with porting will help if not eliminate it.

 

[juanpac0]

This is really really bad advice. Probably should know what your talking about before posting

FAQ: What is Boost Creep?

I don't see how more boost is bad advice.

I also kinda do know what I'm talking about. Just a little though.

 

[tkelly27]

Huh. I figured It wouldnt be any different than say an hx40 my bros car has an hx40 and he doesnt spool up all the way till around 5500. Hx55!? It would be AWESOME for a race car, but i would get impatient waiting for it on the street. I like my E16g. But deff thanks for the info. Im pretty new to the turbo world.

Your brother should look into smaller turbine housings and going to twin scroll. The HX35 spools up fast for a turbo that can make 500+hp.


Nothing less than 1000cc injectors. People with 750cc injectors saved ~$40 but are forever slow and full of regret, or they are buying $8/gallon race fuel.

Decisions decisions. Why does it have to be such a pain in the ass? I've driven and tuned in cars E316g, tdo5 20g, tdo6 20g, and a HX35.

The fastest was the HX35, it also spooled up nearly as fast as the tdo5 turbos. It wasn't running as much boost either. You don't want the tdo6 20g, but it turns into a monster when it finally spools.

Since you don't want to go through the work and cost of a T3 manifold that leaves the E3 and the 20g. I don't think you can make a 16g perform better than a 20g with the $200 you'd save by getting the E3.

You can't go wrong with either one of them. If your friends with fox bodies are more likely to show up with a 347 than a 302, I'd probably go with the 20g. If not, the 16g may fit the bill

Never dealt with a 50 trim, so I can't speak to it.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

I'm going to resurrect this...Do I want a TD05 or TD05H 20G? I've tried reading up on the difference between the two but I'm still a little confused...

 

[carvinbassplyr]

I wanna kinda bring this back from the dead a bit since my project has kind of taken a turn...I've seen/heard that the holset turbos have been made more "bolt on" ready due to bullseye bolt on housings and other now available parts since holsets have become more and more popular in our community. I still haven't invested in a new turbo setup because I decided to have peace of mind and do a 6 bolt shortblock install (6 bolt bottom with 2G pistons/1G rods and keeping the 2G head), especially since the motor has 133,000 miles on it. That being said I was dead set on the 20G TD05H turbo last I checked this thread, but then I started running into other DSM guys in the area running the hx35/hx40 turbos and heard them talk about the install being so much easier now. They're even claiming that an hx35 spools faster than a TD05H 20G while obviously out-flowing it. Is this true or are they just trying to justify throwing these huge turbos on their cars? Has the install become much easier/more practical? If a holset truly spools faster than a TD05H 20G it seems like it would be worth some effort to get it on the car since the 7 blade outflows a TD05H 20G quite considerably and the holset turbos are almost bullet proof! Just would like some fresh opinions on this since after the 6 bolt bottom goes in the turbo system, tuning software and fuel mods will be the next stage.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

Everyone is going to have their opinion, but my car did EXACTLY what you're looking for. Look at my profile for reference. An Evo III 16g is all you need to achieve your goals. They can be had for fairly cheap for use ones in good condition. The Holset is a good turbo but you need a completely different setup as far as oil and exhaust housing and all that good stuff, it adds up QUICK. You already have the setup you need for the 16g. Just throw it on, get a good tune and some cams, and you're good to go. It really is that easy. Just make sure you have enough fuel and a good tune, and all of the maintenance done.

My car hit 322 whp on a VERY conservative tune with just an SAFC, on 23 psi on a mustang dyno, which is around or over 350whp on a dyno jet. I feel like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

Everyone is going to have their opinion, but my car did EXACTLY what you're looking for. Look at my profile for reference. An Evo III 16g is all you need to achieve your goals. They can be had for fairly cheap for use ones in good condition. The Holset is a good turbo but you need a completely different setup as far as oil and exhaust housing and all that good stuff, it adds up QUICK. You already have the setup you need for the 16g. Just throw it on, get a good tune and some cams, and you're good to go. It really is that easy. Just make sure you have enough fuel and a good tune, and all of the maintenance done.

My car hit 322 whp on a VERY conservative tune with just an SAFC, on 23 psi on a mustang dyno, which is around or over 350whp on a dyno jet. I feel like you're making it more complicated than it needs to be.

I want to believe it's that easy but there seems to be more evidence to the contrary...I'd love to have 350awhp with the spool time if an EIII16G but it still seems that making those numbers depends on a built motor and an extremely amazing tuning ability, neither of which I have.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Or you know just run some real boost..

 

[carvinbassplyr]

Or you know just run some real boost..

Aren't the EIII16G's at max ability/efficiency above 20 psi?

 

[Dert]

With evo3 price skyrocketing you are better off buying something else new unless you can get an evo3 used. Paying $900+ for an evo 3 is crazy, might as well get the 68HTA, will perform alot better for less than $100 more. When they were $500 new it was a good route to go but now for the same $$ there are alot better options for turbos that will also leave you plenty of room to grow.

 

[Dert]

Aren't the EIII16G's at max ability/efficiency above 20 psi?

I think the evo 3 max efficiency is around the 27psi mark. The 14B is 18psi I can't see the evo3 max range only being 2 psi more when it flows like 180cfm more than a 14b

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

I want to believe it's that easy but there seems to be more evidence to the contrary...I'd love to have 350awhp with the spool time if an EIII16G but it still seems that making those numbers depends on a built motor and an extremely amazing tuning ability, neither of which I have.

Well I'm a walking example that it can be done, and there are plenty of others, but it sounds like you're talking yourself out of it. I'll leave you to it.

 

[re-rx7]

FP28 for 300whp Hx35 for more. Just my 2 cents.

 

[rEclipserGST]

If your Hp goal is only 350, I doubt you need the 1000cc, you could save yourself some money and get some 650cc or 750cc, that's if you want more power later on. But that's me only, I would definitely go with a EIII16g, but if i had the money, the HTA68 turbo would be the way to go.

Check my profile mods.

I would suggest saving for a bigger bolt on turbo like above stated. Max that 14b out for now. They are mini monsters.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

Well I'm a walking example that it can be done, and there are plenty of others, but it sounds like you're talking yourself out of it. I'll leave you to it.

I'm not talking myself out of anything...I would just rather buy the turbo that makes me happy the first time instead of buying one, installing it, not getting the numbers/performance I'm after, sell it for pennies on the dollar and have to spend another $1200 on another one. I'm actually strongly considering the EIII16G or similar turbo because this car above all will be my daily driver so it will see mostly street miles with the occasional auot-cross track on the weekends with friends and the EIII16G gets very high praise for it's street-ability while being able to put up big numbers (if you're a magician). The 20G does have people also arguing that you can make it a street-able turbo but that's if you go with a TD05H and a 7cm housing to help with spool time which, from what I've read, really chokes that turbo @ higher boost (kind of like the 6cm housing on the 14B). So the epic debate in my head is do I get a an EIII16G and pray I can squeeze the power out of it without greatly diminishing it's lifespan or do I get a TD05H 20G which will make the numbers, but run the risk of the boost dropping off after 5500-6000 rpms? The reason I'm trying to stay with the Mitsu turbos is that while the price on FP has skyrocketed on these turbos there are a handful of members here who rebuild/rebalance cores and sell them for $400-$500 shipped because they are so plentiful. The HTA68's and other variants are harder to find deals on like that.

 

[carvinbassplyr]

What about running and E316G with an 8cm housing? I know these are hard to come by but if I got my hands on one would that help an E316G turbo breath enough to get it into 350awhp?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I was able to move 35lbs/min through a 14B in a ported 6cm2 housing @ 24-25psi routinely in the winter.

That airflow corresponded with the whp estimates through ECMLink with proper gearing/weight setup in link, and showed me to be making a hair more than 330fwhp.

On a 14B.. in the small housing. For reference when that car was on the dyno the year before I made 250fwhp/260fwtq @ 16psi. And that was with a stock exhaust and intake snorkel.

The Evo3 16G is a 42-43lb/min turbo and in a 7cm housing you can really push it. If you cannot make 350awhp, its not the turbo's fault.

I can't believe that 4 pages on you still haven't figured that out.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

I was able to move 35lbs/min through a 14B in a ported 6cm2 housing @ 24-25psi routinely in the winter.

That airflow corresponded with the whp estimates through ECMLink with proper gearing/weight setup in link, and showed me to be making a hair more than 330fwhp.

On a 14B.. in the small housing. For reference when that car was on the dyno the year before I made 250fwhp/260fwtq @ 16psi. And that was with a stock exhaust and intake snorkel.

The Evo3 16G is a 42-43lb/min turbo and in a 7cm housing you can really push it. If you cannot make 350awhp, its not the turbo's fault.

I can't believe that 4 pages on you still haven't figured that out.

Thank God. I was beginning to think I was the only one

 

[carvinbassplyr]

I was able to move 35lbs/min through a 14B in a ported 6cm2 housing @ 24-25psi routinely in the winter.

That airflow corresponded with the whp estimates through ECMLink with proper gearing/weight setup in link, and showed me to be making a hair more than 330fwhp.

On a 14B.. in the small housing. For reference when that car was on the dyno the year before I made 250fwhp/260fwtq @ 16psi. And that was with a stock exhaust and intake snorkel.

The Evo3 16G is a 42-43lb/min turbo and in a 7cm housing you can really push it. If you cannot make 350awhp, its not the turbo's fault.

I can't believe that 4 pages on you still haven't figured that out.

Well excuse me for measuring twice and cutting once...I just want to feel confident in the decision b4 dropping $1000.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well except had you been diligent in your research you would've noticed that the 20G with the TD05H wheel is going to have nearly the same limitations as the 16G.

That turbine will have real difficulty (if it's not impossible) in trying to max out the nearly 50lb/min 20G wheel with a 7cm2 housing.

You would need to step up to the TD06H wheel, regardless of what housing you have.

 

[jrohner]

If you have nothing to tune with, you aren't even making the most of the turbo you have, so what's the point of 'upgrading'?

 

[carvinbassplyr]

If you have nothing to tune with, you aren't even making the most of the turbo you have, so what's the point of 'upgrading'?

Because the turbo, FMIC, fuel upgrades and tuning software are all part of a bulk "stage" upgrade purchase I will he making so I want to get it all right. I see the point made about the limitations of the TD05H 20G not being much better than an E316G and can almost guarantee that a TD06H 20G will spool to slow for my needs. I would like to make the dyno numbers but street, "real-life" results/performance is important. So trying to keep the balance between making the numbers yet having the performance/response your after sometimes takes knowledge from people with actual experience not just flow charts and theories on paper. Plenty of things that looked great on paper didn't workout so great in real life.

 

[eligst21]

Ha truth said juan. I have a gsx with a evo III 16g and if i got it tuned past 20 pounds of boost, i was knocking like crazy. I would assume, you would make what i made. I made good power for a pump gas car and let alone on shitty 91. Unless you can throw e85 or race gas, 350 is virtually impossible on pump gas without potentially damageing your mototr. Check out my profile and my dyno link. I got mine tuned by one of the best. Some may know him as Lucas English. So i think the tune is up to par and he wouldnt do a crappy tune.

I was able to move 35lbs/min through a 14B in a ported 6cm2 housing @ 24-25psi routinely in the winter.

That airflow corresponded with the whp estimates through ECMLink with proper gearing/weight setup in link, and showed me to be making a hair more than 330fwhp.

On a 14B.. in the small housing. For reference when that car was on the dyno the year before I made 250fwhp/260fwtq @ 16psi. And that was with a stock exhaust and intake snorkel.

The Evo3 16G is a 42-43lb/min turbo and in a 7cm housing you can really push it. If you cannot make 350awhp, its not the turbo's fault.

I can't believe that 4 pages on you still haven't figured that out.

I wouldnt be able to believe it either, if it wasnt on pump gas. Pump gas is very limiting, especially californias gas. Anything past 20 psi, i would expect to see some knock. I just dont see it happeneing from all the threads and all the tunes i saw lucas do on 91. None were over 20. Maybe 21 psi. True, evo3 16g should make that, if the engine allows it to.

 

[Force Fed 4g63]

Ha truth said juan. I have a gsx with a evo III 16g and if i got it tuned past 20 pounds of boost, i was knocking like crazy. I would assume, you would make what i made. I made good power for a pump gas car and let alone on shitty 91. Unless you can throw e85 or race gas, 350 is virtually impossible on pump gas without potentially damageing your mototr. Check out my profile and my dyno link. I got mine tuned by one of the best. Some may know him as Lucas English. So i think the tune is up to par and he wouldnt do a crappy tune.



I wouldnt be able to believe it either, if it wasnt on pump gas. Pump gas is very limiting, especially californias gas. Anything past 20 psi, i would expect to see some knock. I just dont see it happeneing from all the threads and all the tunes i saw lucas do on 91. None were over 20. Maybe 21 psi. True, evo3 16g should make that, if the engine allows it to.

I'm sorry but this is just bad information. 350 is not difficult on pump gas if you have the right setup. I did it on 93 at 23 psi on an Evo III 16g with no knock on a basic tune. By no means am I the only one either. This is not graphs or theories, this is real world, been there done that experience.