more boost= less power???

[nightmares GS-T]

Ok so heres the problem, I recently made a manual boost controller and installed it. before I put it on i was running 14 lbs at peak boost and it would fall to around 11 lbs at 6300 rpm. after i installed it i began adjusting it only to find that no matter how much i turned it up, my boost gauge never showed above 14 lbs and to make things even better after adjusting the screw in a good bit i find that it actually feels like my car has LESS power. Im almost positive its installed correctly so any help would be appreciated. The only thing that I can think of is that either (A) im running to lean and thats where the power loss comes from or (B) my boost is leaking out around my sh*tty stock BOV, but in either case wouldnt my boost gauge show some sort of increase in boost?

 

[caboose]

have you bltd it?

 

[Dert]

Boost leak test first, if you know somebody else with a mbc, borrow it and see if you get a different reading then you will know if its your mbc

 

[gorf]

Might be your stock 2g BOV leaking any additional boost. The best bang for the buck that I got when I started modding was Dave Brode UICP with 1g bov. Faster throttle response and was able to turn up the boost - some.

 

[spicoli619]

check your stock BOV they are super leaky. and for you to be running higher boost dont you have to have a different WGA? i thought the stock one opened around 14 or so psi

 

[SBR Joe]

Im gonna go with a lean condition. Your profile lists no fuel upgrades...is this still accurate?


Joe
SBR

 

[nightmares GS-T]

thank all of you for your input so far please keep it coming. as far as the bov im workin on gettin that changed out to a stock 1g, im gonna do a leak test this weekend and see if its leaking like i think it is around the bov. one thing i dont understand though is if i did have it turned so high that it leaned it out enough to make it run worse, then wouldn't the boost gauge show the increased air, and if the lack of fuel is the problem, will rewiring the stock pump fix it because i do indeed have a completely stock fuel system

 

[SBR Joe]

thank all of you for your input so far please keep it coming. as far as the bov im workin on gettin that changed out to a stock 1g, im gonna do a leak test this weekend and see if its leaking like i think it is around the bov. one thing i dont understand though is if i did have it turned so high that it leaned it out enough to make it run worse, then wouldn't the boost gauge show the increased air, and if the lack of fuel is the problem, will rewiring the stock pump fix it because i do indeed have a completely stock fuel system

The boost gauge wouldnt show it knocking .

If you rewired the pump that would most definately help...whether its a lean condition causing the problems or not, it will help and is a good idea.


Joe
SBR

 

[nightmares GS-T]

well then I will rewire the pump sometime in the next few days and test for leaks but with the pump rewired is 16 lbs still the limit on boost or can I go further? its my daily driver and being that right now I dont have a logger to monitor it I dont wanna push it but I want to get as much power as I can without losing reliability.

 

[knochgoon24]

Then stop at 14psi, save your pennies, and buy a logger.

 

[nightmares GS-T]

pennies? When I get any kind of software ill go with a DSM link and a MAF translator. So all in all im looking at about 900$, thats gonna be alot of "pennies"

 

[JusMX141]

pennies? When I get any kind of software ill go with a DSM link and a MAF translator. So all in all im looking at about 900$, thats gonna be alot of "pennies"

ECMLink can somewhat be justified for a near-stock car, but may I ask why the GM MAS (You don't need a translator with ECMLink)? There are plenty of other mods to be acquired before you'll be anywhere near overdrawing the 2G MAS.

...and please don't say so you can't vent your BOV properly.

 

[nightmares GS-T]

no I wouldnt dare waste my money on a GM MAF and a translator simply to vent to the atmosphere. And I am just a little new to the DSM world and wasnt aware of another way to tune other than the DSM link.

 

[knochgoon24]

pennies? When I get any kind of software ill go with a DSM link and a MAF translator. So all in all im looking at about 900$, thats gonna be alot of "pennies"

If you have a laptop you can spend $10 on a cable and $25 on evoscan and be able to see just about anything your car's ecu is doing.

If you go with a palm, $50 or so will have you up and logging.

Or, you can skip getting a logger and resume wondering why your car is running bad.

If you could at least monitor the narrowband o2 sensor, you'd have a ballpark idea if your running lean/rich (if that's the problem at all).


EDIT:

no I wouldnt dare waste my money on a GM MAF and a translator simply to vent to the atmosphere. And I am just a little new to the DSM world and wasnt aware of another way to tune other than the DSM link.

ECMLink is the new version of DSMLink

 

[BoostFrenzy]

...I dont wanna push it but I want to get as much power as I can without losing reliability.

Um...stop modding now???

 

[420a_turbo]

Um...stop modding now???

X2

DSM's break. Period. If you don't want to throw some $$ at the problem to address it correctly, then don't push your luck. Be patient, never ever sell the car, and eventually all your car dreams will come true!!!


For what its worth I would think you have a boost leak.

I have never heard of a boost noob being unable to hit fuel cut in their boosted car with a MBC. Its almost always the other way around.

"Dude, I was pushing like 20lbs of boost and all the sudden my face hit the steering wheel. Is that what fuel cut is?"


I think it happens to almost everyone on their first boosted car they decide to mod.

 

[dsm-onster]

Well he can address his problem with little to no money. It's a simple fix. He jsut needs to know what's going on. For a 2g now a days good logging is more affordable than ever.

I vote that its just that his t25 can't go higher than 14psi. . . I could be wrong. Because he SHOULD be able to boost to kingdom come by 3500rpms (when it should be full boost) but then blead down back to 14ish psi. But then again is he relying on the stock gauge (not good)? No need for more than a fuel pump rewire if you're seeing 14psi by redline.

But if you have the stock BOV then you're really just aasking for a boost leak past 14psi anyway. And not running a simple CHEAP boostleak test isn't conducive to a good dsm experience

These cars are CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP to keep on the road with their stock turbos. Trannies don't break at this level, Boost gauges are a dime a dozen, you MAY wear out the clutch, stock fuel system is adequate to see the far reaches of the turbo in stock form, logging solutions are simple and so affordable, and the 4g63 takes hell and comes back for a smooth restart and normal daily driving.

 

[knochgoon24]

I could hit 17psi with the T25. I saw it spike past 25psi once (accident). You can't expect 14psi at readline if that's your problem.

Anything past about 15psi, and the turbo will be out of it's efficiency range. You'll do more heating of the air than compressing. You'll notice your air flow flatten.

I think I was still pushing about 7psi at 7k.

 

[the_mork]

I would suggest a large boost leak. Because of that boost leak your MAF is reading a significant amount more air coming in than is reaching your motor which will cause a rich condition and your car will feel slow. If the leak is coming through your bov (fairly likely) and it is recirculated then probably your turbo is boosting like crazy to try and keep up with your demand but not getting anywhere which results in an incredibly hot intake charge.

I would doubt a lean condition unless something else is seriously wrong. Especially with a boost leak you will likely hit fuel cut before your fuel system reaches the point of being really tapped out enough to stop supplying the fuel that the computer demands.

FWIW other tuning options exist. Dsmlink is great but you could also go with an evo8 ecu, a chip, or a 98/99 ecu to meet your needs. If I was in your position I would look into either the evo8 ecu or the 98/99 ecu. The evo8 ecu is more mature with greater abilities but the 98/99 ecu does 95% of what anyone could want (full fuel and timing control) and Ceddy is making great progress on all sorts of features like 2step, NLTS, CEL on knock, etc.

 

[420a_turbo]

Well he can address his problem with little to no money. It's a simple fix. He jsut needs to know what's going on. For a 2g now a days good logging is more affordable than ever.

I vote that its just that his t25 can't go higher than 14psi. . . I could be wrong. Because he SHOULD be able to boost to kingdom come by 3500rpms (when it should be full boost) but then blead down back to 14ish psi. But then again is he relying on the stock gauge (not good)? No need for more than a fuel pump rewire if you're seeing 14psi by redline.

But if you have the stock BOV then you're really just aasking for a boost leak past 14psi anyway. And not running a simple CHEAP boostleak test isn't conducive to a good dsm experience

These cars are CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP to keep on the road with their stock turbos. Trannies don't break at this level, Boost gauges are a dime a dozen, you MAY wear out the clutch, stock fuel system is adequate to see the far reaches of the turbo in stock form, logging solutions are simple and so affordable, and the 4g63 takes hell and comes back for a smooth restart and normal daily driving.

I agree with you 100% However this guy is already headed in the wrong direction. I mean honestly, there are like 5 things under $100 that would help him out, but he wants to just up the boost. Thats what I get from whats been said anyways. BTW, how do you know how much PSI the stock gauge is showing

So, thats why I feel the way I do. No boost gauge, no logging equipment, no fuel supply help and no tuning equipment either. To me this feels like a noob situation and this guy should learn more before blowing up his car. Not trying to slam the guy or anything, but seriously this is a typical noob move. Turbo DSM+MBC=more boost=more power.....RIGHT?



And any real DSM guy knows this.

 

[nightmares GS-T]

Well im almost positive its leaking around the BOV so ill be putting a 1G BOV on it sometime this week as well as rewiring the fuel pump. as far as logging options go i had no idea that there were that many different choices because like i said im fairly new to DSMs.
And to answer dsm-onsters question, hell no im not relying on my stock boost gauge , my first mod was an aftermarket gauge. and since all of you seem to know where to find these alternate tuning options could you please provide some links because i was seriously under the impression that DSM link was the only one.

 

[the_mork]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...first-flashed-dsm-ecu-98-99-flashing-faq.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/321515-evo-8-ecu-2g-works.html

These are the options that I would suggest.

 

[nightmares GS-T]

I agree with you 100% However this guy is already headed in the wrong direction. I mean honestly, there are like 5 things under $100 that would help him out, but he wants to just up the boost. Thats what I get from whats been said anyways. BTW, how do you know how much PSI the stock gauge is showing

So, thats why I feel the way I do. No boost gauge, no logging equipment, no fuel supply help and no tuning equipment either. To me this feels like a noob situation and this guy should learn more before blowing up his car. Not trying to slam the guy or anything, but seriously this is a typical noob move. Turbo DSM+MBC=more boost=more power.....RIGHT?



And any real DSM guy knows this.

No, im not heading in the wrong direction because I havent even turned the boost up yet in fear (and knowledge) that more air with less fuel= melted valves and pistons but according to most DSM builders you can go as high as 15 or even 16 psi with no fuel mods. And like I said in my last post I have an aftermarket boost gauge. I mean really, do people honestly rely on an ecu controlled boost gauge that doesnt even have numbers on it?

 

[nightmares GS-T]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tun...first-flashed-dsm-ecu-98-99-flashing-faq.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tuning-engine-management/321515-evo-8-ecu-2g-works.html

These are the options that I would suggest.

thank you

 

[nightmares GS-T]

If you have a laptop you can spend $10 on a cable and $25 on evoscan and be able to see just about anything your car's ecu is doing.

If you go with a palm, $50 or so will have you up and logging.

Or, you can skip getting a logger and resume wondering why your car is running bad.

If you could at least monitor the narrowband o2 sensor, you'd have a ballpark idea if your running lean/rich (if that's the problem at all).


EDIT:


ECMLink is the new version of DSMLink

well could you tell me where to find the cable and evoscan because i went looking for the cable a while back and found nothing.