modify the maf= bad idea

[Mystikal_1788]

i was thinking was modifying the maf a bad idea- i did and i also modded the bcs and now my car runs like shiet has anyone else had probs from doing this 2 simple mods?

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
im showing no check engine codes either?

ok then it is not something the computer can pick up. Lets start with finding out what boost levels you are getting for messing with bcs and if you are rich or lean

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
well i bought ngk v-power ones today have not put the in - could i use those or should i go get the other ones?

which ones are they. I dont know anyone who uses them so if the car ran good on them before goahead, other wise the BPR7ES`s are cheap

 

[Mystikal_1788]

ok tommorow i will do both and i will post at 11:00 pm when i get too work if your not on it's ok post when you can - and we will go from there- thanks alot i mean alot for all your help

 

[Tom N]

I know this can get frustrating some times i went through some #@%#@%#@%#@% with mine when i first got into DSM`s but hang in there its worth it. Just use those links i gave you. I learned alot in there reading in my spare time. There is also alot of good info in the DSM community. You can never ask a stupid question but you can make a stupid mistake and blow your engine.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

those are the plugs that come in the v-tech cars stock they seem to be good plugs - the car ran great for a day on them

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
ok tommorow i will do both and i will post at 11:00 pm when i get too work if your not on it's ok post when you can - and we will go from there- thanks alot i mean alot for all your help

Ok good luck let me know what happens

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
those are the plugs that come in the v-tech cars stock they seem to be good plugs - the car ran great for a day on them

those motors are so different then a 4g63. i would stick with what we know works.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

ok i will go pick up a set of the other ngk's tommorow and run them all day and tell you the color when i post

 

[LaserRST]

Here is some interesting facts about the honeycomb removal and what effects it has on your engine...sounds exactly like the problem you have.


MODIFY MAS = BAD IDEA...end of discussion



Update 09/15/99. I am glad that I chose to remove the lower chamber in a manner that allowed me to put it back in, because after over a month of screwing around with fuel pressure, the AFC, and idle control, I finally decided to put the lower chamber back in to see what would happen.

I had been having low speed drivability problems. When the rpms would fall from 4k or above, the ISC was not able to catch it, and the car would die over half the time. I set the base idle to 1100 rpm, and it didn't die anymore, but it did have a bit of a surging problem, but not too serious. I drove it like this for many weeks. It also was very "jerky" at low speeds and throttle positions less than 10%, the car would start bucking, requiring continuous clutch finesse at parking lot speeds.

I decided the 1100 rpm idle and +/- 500 rpm surging was just not my "style" so I messed around with everything trying to make it better. I put the lower chamber back in and lowered the idle to 750 and blammo everything worked like a "stock" car.

So my finally diagnosis is that with the lower chamber removed, at low airflow rates the air would easily flow through the "hole" and hardly any of it would go through the MAF counter, as a result, I had all of the problems above. At high airflow rates, a great deal of air would get sucked through the MAF counter, even though it was more restrictive, and it could be tuned. Many people design some kind of "flapper" so that at low airflow rates the air is forced through the MAF counter and at high airflow rates, the flap opens and air can go through both chambers. I haven't explored this idea yet. I think I am just going to leave the lower chamber in there and start looking for a 2G MAF.

Randy Nuckels

 

[Mystikal_1788]

huh that is very interesting but the thing ismine kinda has no pull- but it's not at low speeds i really have a pull in 1st gear no so much in 2nd and non in 3rd 4th and 5th so it's like his but onl backwards- plus i tried to put the maf back in and i didn't get a blammo end of discussing result

are the 1g maf and the 2gmaf interchangable?

 

[LaserRST]

I dont know if its interchangable but I do know it flows harder and is more accurate than the 1g. If anyone out there knows, that would be good information. And a proper way to upgrade the intake of the 1gs too.

 

[turboholic]

-You can use a 2G MAF in a 1G, but must use some sort of AFC to richen the ratio b/c the 2G flow much more air. http://dmtalon.v8eaters.com/2gmaf.html

 

[mavisky]

actually i would run br7es's in stead of the bpr7es's since our cars don't seem to like platinum plugs.

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by turboholic
-You can use a 2G MAF in a 1G, but must use some sort of AFC to richen the ratio b/c the 2G flow much more air. http://dmtalon.v8eaters.com/2gmaf.html

Not true a stock 2g maf will out flow a 1g maf but a properley gutted 1g maf(alblaha maf) will work better than a 2g maf. A 2g maf can be use with out a afc in a 1g you just have to change the wiring around but i wouldnt recomend it. It is not a great upgrade if you plan on mooding out the car. Please dont listen to this modding the mas crap is bad. It’s just not true no one with a 12 sec or better DSM has a stock 1g maf.

Originally posted by mavisky
actually i would run br7es's in stead of the bpr7es's since our cars don't seem to like platinum plugs.

BPR7ES are not platinium plugs they are one deree colder than stock plugs. They just good old $1.59 NGK plugs. No moddified car really likes platinum plug. Platinum is not a performance plug its a last real long time plug.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

bbuull #@%#@%#@%#@% i have heard over and over how this mod messes to much with the car and also the 12 sec dsm's have alot more stuff than my stock laser does - such as things to change the air/fuel ratio so if your stock looking for a easy mod do not modify the mass-if you are going to get a afc then go ahead and do it because you can change the ratio's

so i retract my statement modify the maf=bad idea and add a new statement modify the maf= very bad idea without the supporting mods

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
so i retract my statement modify the maf=bad idea and add a new statement modify the maf= very bad idea without the supporting mods

listen taking out the silencer and removing the lower honey comb is not going to kill the cars power. You can take it from those that have already going threw what you r about to or not its up to you.Talk to those that have been doing this along time and there is where you will get your help and guidence to building a fast and well running car. Now if you did some thing to mess up the maf while removing the lower honey comb thats a different story.

And also i put my first DSM in the 12`s with no afc and on stock injector but a properly hacked maf. Just remember alot of people have opinions but not all have the experience to back them up.
vfaq is your friend as well as dsm .org they will not miss lead you.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

the problem with that statement is I DID NOT MESS THE MAF UP there is no way i messed it up- im not a retard- your not listening - it is a bad idea on some cars (underline some) just look at the post above- your opinion is that every fast dsm out there has to have the maf hacked- which is a bunch of sshhiitt- because i know it is possible to have a 12 sec dsm that has the stock maf - or a 2g maf - which is also stock- before you go running your mouth check the facts partner.........
and in no way is this thread about maf=bad idea- look at the freakin original post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was just asking if it could be a potential porb. and it turns out that it can

Originally posted by LaserRST
Here is some interesting facts about the honeycomb removal and what effects it has on your engine...sounds exactly like the problem you have.


MODIFY MAS = BAD IDEA...end of discussion



Update 09/15/99. I am glad that I chose to remove the lower chamber in a manner that allowed me to put it back in, because after over a month of screwing around with fuel pressure, the AFC, and idle control, I finally decided to put the lower chamber back in to see what would happen.

I had been having low speed drivability problems. When the rpms would fall from 4k or above, the ISC was not able to catch it, and the car would die over half the time. I set the base idle to 1100 rpm, and it didn't die anymore, but it did have a bit of a surging problem, but not too serious. I drove it like this for many weeks. It also was very "jerky" at low speeds and throttle positions less than 10%, the car would start bucking, requiring continuous clutch finesse at parking lot speeds.

I decided the 1100 rpm idle and +/- 500 rpm surging was just not my "style" so I messed around with everything trying to make it better. I put the lower chamber back in and lowered the idle to 750 and blammo everything worked like a "stock" car.

So my finally diagnosis is that with the lower chamber removed, at low airflow rates the air would easily flow through the "hole" and hardly any of it would go through the MAF counter, as a result, I had all of the problems above. At high airflow rates, a great deal of air would get sucked through the MAF counter, even though it was more restrictive, and it could be tuned. Many people design some kind of "flapper" so that at low airflow rates the air is forced through the MAF counter and at high airflow rates, the flap opens and air can go through both chambers. I haven't explored this idea yet. I think I am just going to leave the lower chamber in there and start looking for a 2G MAF.

Randy Nuckels

this is incase you didn't read it the first time

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
the problem with that statement is I DID NOT MESS THE MAF UP there is no way i messed it up- im not a retard- your not listening - it is a bad idea on some cars (underline some) just look at the post above- your opinion is that every fast dsm out there has to have the maf hacked- which is a bunch of sshhiitt- because i know it is possible to have a 12 sec dsm that has the stock maf - or a 2g maf - which is also stock- before you go running your mouth check the facts partner.........
and in no way is this thread about maf=bad idea- look at the freakin original post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was just asking if it could be a potential porb. and it turns out that it can

This is what you get whaen you spend time trying to help some one. And your right you dont have to hack a maf to run 12`s you can get a vpc instead. you show me one person with a 12 sec car that uses a totaly stock maf. I`m sorry if my trying to help you has madw you mad nut i have been doing this along time and i hate to see people get stuck on misleaded ideas. If you want to believe just taking out a honeycomb will make your car do what its doing well its your car. Did you bother to hook up the boost gauge yet and see what kind of boost you r running.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

ok first off im not trying to come down on you for helping - i thank you for helping BUT BUT what have you helped with again- you are claiming i said something that i have not - i never ever claimed that modifying the maf was a bad idea the original post was about IF it could pose a prob. maybe you sould of been the first one to post and then we would not have 55 or some posts

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
i was thinking was modifying the maf a bad idea- i did and i also modded the bcs and now my car runs like shiet has anyone else had probs from doing this 2 simple mods?

this was the original post !

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
ok first off im not trying to come down on you for helping - i thank you for helping BUT BUT what have you helped with again- you are claiming i said something that i have not - i never ever claimed that modifying the maf was a bad idea the original post was about IF it could pose a prob. maybe you sould of been the first one to post and then we would not have 55 or some posts

i never said you said hacking a mas was a bad idea. I was trying to get you to look at other possibilities as to what could be wrong with your car. And for you not to believe that taking out a honey comb is causing your car to loose its pull.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

well answer a question for me- im not thinking it is the maf from your post- i give you props for your long experience with it - could taking the restrictor out of the bcs open the wastegate sooner and im loosing boost that way - that is my only explaination for my car- if this sounds right let me know - if not than it has to be the maf

well let me know from your experience could this be my culprit because believe it or not i value your opinion

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788




this is incase you didn't read it the first time

i dont see what this has to do with your car. Yours idles fine you have said it just has lost its pull threw the gears. There is more to that story (the one you quoted)than is there. And yes part of a complete hack job is a flapper door (as well as a resistor for fuel cut) but thats for when you gut the bottum of the maf not just remove a honey comb. i wish i had a digital camera i would take a picture of one thats done for you.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

because if it is im going to get a manual boost controller and say ffuucckk it - either way im getting a mbc soon anyway

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
well answer a question for me- im not thinking it is the maf from your post- i give you props for your long experience with it - could taking the restrictor out of the bcs open the wastegate sooner and im loosing boost that way - that is my only explaination for my car- if this sounds right let me know - if not than it has to be the maf

Yes it could be from the bcs. It could be opening the wastegate to soon or not letting it close. You realy need to get a mbc and hook up the boost gauge its very easy. Does the car start to pull at all then at high rpms just fall on its face?

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
because if it is im going to get a manual boost controller and say ffuucckk it - either way im getting a mbc soon anyway

yes yes yes they r like $40. i will have to look for the site you can get them for that much. I believe its a Joe p. or a hallman. Just make sure you get a ball and spring one not a vacuum one.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

could it be my bcs giving me my trouble ? dude im sorry i blew up im just sooooooooooooooo damn frustrated because this car has been screwed up for like 3 weeks and i just want it fixed and i can't seem to figure it out - can it be my bcs - opening the wastegate way too early?

you pin pointed it exactly the car has some serious pull in 1st then 2nd a little then none in 3rd 4th and 5th gear it completly falls on it's face

 

[Tom N]

Originally posted by Mystikal_1788
you pin pointed it exactly the car has some serious pull in 1st then 2nd a little then none in 3rd 4th and 5th gear it completly falls on it's face

http://www.boostcontroller.com/
hallman ES boost controle is all you need $45 brand new
yes that is possible it could also not be opening at all and the loss of pull up top is from knock which is pulling timing but not likely seeing as it isnt really happening in 1st or 2nd. You MUST have the boost gauge hooked up to use the mbc. You should just hook it up now and see what boost you are going up to in each gear. This will tell alot.

do you have a local dsm club where you live? If so try and swap maf`s with some one for a minute and see how the car runs just to clear that issue up and make sure the maf isnt bad. But ussauly a bad maf cause alot more then just what you have. alot of times it wont even start.

 

[Mystikal_1788]

well when i ordered the stuff from a parts store they ordered it throught diff companys the gauge and the pod- so i have the guage and im waiting for the mounting pod to come in should be in today - i think so if i could i will get that in today and order a mbc up asap - dude sorry again for the over reaction and too bad you live in flordia other wise i would get you some drinks to make up for it umm i will keep ya posted to see if that is the fix im looking for

i think you are right - i also think i would be throwing some check engine codes if the maf was bad - and the idle would be fubar