meth injection and 02

[spoolamatic]

I did some searching and couldn't find the answer. Question is: what affect does meth. injection have on the o2 voltage? I am currently putting in ~75% methanol through a 280cc injecture at 50% duty cycle. I have gone in and reprogramed the timing and fuel maps to be more aggresive but even with the fuel compensation set higher than stock I only get about .82 to .85 volts at 14lb. at wot. Is the meth having any affect on the o2 or do I just need to turn the fuel way up and suffer on a good high trim? Also, has anyone tried injecting xylene instead of meth or water?

 

[-=TWITCH=-]

Values are the same.

http://www.h20injection.com/forum/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=65


Chris

 

[1_bar_goes_far]

The link does not work.

 

[14.5 drift]

, you said meth injection.

 

[1_bar_goes_far]

Never mind about the link. My computer must of just been messing up(wich hardly ever happens:laugh: )
And you know what I ment by meth injection (yes "I", I forgot to log of my dad's account befor posting)

 

[TurboDSM90]

.........Also, has anyone tried injecting xylene instead of meth or water?

this is an old thread, but I had to ask.


You try injecting xylene yet??? So far I have had ok luck with some winter windshield wash.

I have had better luck with 114 leaded race gas. I feel its easier on the Additional injector, fuel pump, and rubber lines. I am planning on trying methanol injection, but I dont like the idea of it corroding stuff.

Let me know on the xylene thing.

BTW can you get methanol at hardware stores(name on can?)? or is a performance shop the only place to get actual methanol?

 

[97TSIAWD]

True methanol is a dry gas mixture and should realy be diluted with say a regular alcohol. However denatured alcohol is the closet thing to methanol. I use denatured alcohol from Home Depot or any home store, with my SMC Enterprises alcohol injection kit. It works great and I've been able to run higher boost with no sign of detonation. I was looking for an alternative for race fuel, as my friends with the GN's and my TTA however for some reason our cars just don't run the same and I've found Leaded gas is the best for racing, but I still use my alcohol and am able to lean the fuel (leaded) and I have seem improvements. As for corrosion, the alcohol in the motor actually acts as a cleaner and some people have commented that after removing their head it looks steamed clean, however the actual pump for the system can become corroded if not taken care of, the pump can not be exposed it must be covered by alcohol all the time, and a tblsp of an oil in the mixture of alcohol keeps everything lubed.

 

[TurboDSM90]

xylene kicks serious @$$!!!!

I am very very happy with the results. I can run 23 psi on 91 octane with 1 or 2 counts of knock.

I cant seem to run as much timing on pump+xylene, as compared to 100 octane. The timing margin is small, but can definatly be felt up top as race gas (as primary fuel) "feels better" in the higher rpm range.

The best part is xylene can be purchased at DSMrs favorite performance shops.....

Home Depot.

 

[gixrman]

Have you thought about Toluene(sp),its suppose to raise the octane rating substationally better than alcohol because of the flash point. If you can still get it (active ingreadient in TNT.

 

[TurboDSM90]

Have you thought about Toluene(sp),its suppose to raise the octane rating substationally better than alcohol because of the flash point. If you can still get it (active ingreadient in TNT.

That was first on my list.

I found xylene to be easier to find vs toluene. As a side note, I found that I needed a permit to purchase toluene, damn meth labs/huffers.

I am not going to down toluene as I have never tried it, but if its better that xylene, I wish I could get some!

Xylene is a couple bucks more that denatured, but the results(xylene over denatured alchy) are better in my application.

 

[97TSIAWD]

That was first on my list.

I found xylene to be easier to find vs toluene. As a side note, I found that I needed a permit to purchase toluene, damn meth labs/huffers.

I am not going to down toluene as I have never tried it, but if its better that xylene, I wish I could get some!

Xylene is a couple bucks more that denatured, but the results(xylene over denatured alchy) are better in my application.

What are the chemical properties of Xylene that make it a better substance than denatured which has been proven time and again by buicks, and myself? Is your setup different, what are you running parts/boost/turbo wise and your fuel octane/amount of the Xylene that you use? I'd like to know because I'm using alcohol as of now and I would like to see your testing with Xylene.

 

[TurboDSM90]

What are the chemical properties of Xylene that make it a better substance than denatured which has been proven time and again by buicks, and myself? Is your setup different, what are you running parts/boost/turbo wise and your fuel octane/amount of the Xylene that you use? I'd like to know because I'm using alcohol as of now and I would like to see your testing with Xylene.

Dont know how hostile that post Is, but here you go.

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html

 

[97TSIAWD]

Dont know how hostile that post Is, but here you go.

http://www.vtr.org/maintain/gasoline-octane.html

Hostile? I was simply asking about your use of Xylene and what you have found, only that?
So from that page it looks like at 10% the gains are the same however it gives a mixture also of 20%/30% but I don't mix in my gasoline as that page is showing, I like many use an injection system that controls the mixture and injection. You can change how much is injected on my system, high/low pump setting but unless I do the math I'm not sure of the total % of mixture. So in fact I could be running 20% of alcohol not sure? As I'm not positive on all the chemical properties and makeups of all the listed ingrediants I can't say which positively would be better (my brother is an engineer could run the math). That's also why I was asking about your setup to see what you run on your car. But thank you for posting that site as it will benefit my search for the best. So far I have run a max of about 21# on the alcohol, I was able to turn it up to about 22# but I was not seeing the max mph that I would have liked to out of it. I ended up running the alcohol with a leaded fuel and was able to up the boost even more and run much higher mph's even higher then when the car was running low et's on just leaded fuel. I'll do some more searching on this stuff also, because I have read many articles on the alcohol already and I would like to see if I could improve with a different additive. However my friend with the GN was able to see his best improvements when he added a 50/50 mix of alcohol and methanol which might be my next move for next year. So for benefits of others search we should continue to add information to this thread, I'd put up the alcohol links but they are easily found with searches on the internet.

 

[TurboDSM90]

Hostile? I was simply asking about your use of Xylene and what you have found, only that?
So from that page it looks like at 10% the gains are the same however it gives a mixture also of 20%/30% but I don't mix in my gasoline as that page is showing, I like many use an injection system that controls the mixture and injection. You can change how much is injected on my system, high/low pump setting but unless I do the math I'm not sure of the total % of mixture. So in fact I could be running 20% of alcohol not sure? As I'm not positive on all the chemical properties and makeups of all the listed ingrediants I can't say which positively would be better (my brother is an engineer could run the math). That's also why I was asking about your setup to see what you run on your car. But thank you for posting that site as it will benefit my search for the best. So far I have run a max of about 21# on the alcohol, I was able to turn it up to about 22# but I was not seeing the max mph that I would have liked to out of it. I ended up running the alcohol with a leaded fuel and was able to up the boost even more and run much higher mph's even higher then when the car was running low et's on just leaded fuel. I'll do some more searching on this stuff also, because I have read many articles on the alcohol already and I would like to see if I could improve with a different additive. However my friend with the GN was able to see his best improvements when he added a 50/50 mix of alcohol and methanol which might be my next move for next year. So for benefits of others search we should continue to add information to this thread, I'd put up the alcohol links but they are easily found with searches on the internet.

Thank you sir.

I am running the greddy emanage which I can add injector duty cycles based on Hz vs RPMS.

I am also running a fuel pump off a hobbs switch set to 4 psi. It also has a stock DSM FPR which raises fuel pressure. with boost......A single injector fuel system if you will.

Sounded like you were putting down my findings. Thats why it sounded kinda "hostile". Thats why I posted, "this is what worked for me".

I will be updating my profile as soon as I am done working out some bugs, and bring home a faster timeslip

 

[97TSIAWD]

Thank you sir.

I am running the greddy emanage which I can add injector duty cycles based on Hz vs RPMS.

I am also running a fuel pump off a hobbs switch set to 4 psi. It also has a stock DSM FPR which raises fuel pressure. with boost......A single injector fuel system if you will.

Sounded like you were putting down my findings. Thats why it sounded kinda "hostile". Thats why I posted, "this is what worked for me".

I will be updating my profile as soon as I am done working out some bugs, and bring home a faster timeslip

Nice it sounds like your running a very good and more complete system than myself. Please do post your results, as this is also a very interesting subject for me and others, sounds like you should bring home a very impressive time slip from what you listed your fuel setup seems very complex, the emanage is a type of stand alone correct? Well good luck and keep me updated please, thank you.

 

[nano]

Tubodsm90, how much better are you're result with xylene? I'm really curious because I was wondering if it would actually work better then alcohol, but I never heard of anyone trying it before. My alcohol injection kit won't be here untill next week though.

 

[97TSIAWD]

After further checking, my denatured alcohol is not just alcohol. It's about 9 dollars a gallon from home depot. My friend says it is methanol, and until I can check a can for the chemical ingrediants I won't know if it is comparable to the MTHB listed on that page. However if it is I can say that I had more luck using it better with a leaded fuel and not just regular 93 octane. Denatured alcohol after searching is an Ethyl Alcohol which has been chemically changed with methanol. (Methanol and Ethanol; v/v) 94.0-96.0%
(Isopropanol: v/v) 4.0-6.0% So denatured consists of 96% Methanol and Ethanol and 4% of regular isopropanol which is rubbing alcohol.

 

[TurboDSM90]

I am finding out a little something about xylene injection+pump gas. It moves up the knock threshold quite a bit, But I think it has a faster flashpoint than real 110 race gas. I need to do some more back to back testing of 110 vs xylene.

I do not know the exact chemical characteristics of how it reacts to combustion. I am just seeing what its doing under boost/WOT via my logger, and butt dyno (Big Dyno BTW).

The reason I came up with this theory is because I could run 1-2 degress more timing up in the higher rpm ranges, without stumbles/knock on race gas injection, vs just using the xylene injection.

As a sidenote, the emanage allows me to advance/retard timing at will via Airflow Hz VS. RPMs.

If this is infact a timing (tuning wise) dilema and not ignition component (wires, plugs, etc.,) related, it will be judged due to xylene's flash point or burn rate. This can be a bad thing, especially from what my friend said who built my block, "it can melt things."

The emanage in my opinion is the next best thing to a stand alone. It is still infact a piggy back, but can be looked at as a user friendly tuning device. It has been very reliable, and having the stock ecu there to start off with is a blessing due to it being able to retard timing under odd circumstances(vacume line ever pop off your FPR?) and burden at the same time(weak timing curves). I am nowhere near fuel cut (880cc injectors), I also have full control over the usable timing areas. I love the extra injector function, and it is very very precise. I am also running the MAFT in blow through form.

I will update my profile with some key mods, just to give you guys an idea of what I am working with.

Sorry to keep some of you in the dark.