Lowering a dsm AND having a soft ride, how?

[MysticMarine]

Gentlemen,

I want to lower my uno-G DSM with coilovers but I don't want a stiff ride, is this possible AND who makes the kit?

Thanks,
-A

 

[Ozone302]

Jtm, i guess i agree to disagree

Painties arent in a bunch over little things, its amazing how words can come out in a text

That wasn't directed towards uou

 

[Ozone302]

Why do threads like this have to turn into a war?

 

[jtmcinder]

Dude calm down. They're stiffer so the car doesn't bottom out because it's lowered. No need to get your panties in a bunch because people don't have the same opinion as you.

My panties are fine, thanks very much. But I'm sick of the BS in this thread. This site isn't where you go to guess about stuff you don't understand. This site is where you go to ask questions, learn, and help teach if you know stuff. And this thread has an incredible amount of total nonsense in it.

So, from the idea (I won't say "fact") that Tokico HPs are stiffer than OE shocks you infer that they are designed for lowered cars ... is that your story? Is there any other difference between an aftermarket shock and an OE shock that you would expect if the shock is designed for lowered cars? Are there any shocks that are stiffer than OE but are not designed for lowered cars?

 

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

On my car I currently have eibach pro's with agx's and from what I have noticed, eibach's have a stiffer ride. I had h&r springs as well and with those on the car didnt feel the shock of nasty potholes or cracks in the road. Both springs were paired with the same set of agx's with setting 3 up front and 4 in back. I do however feel as if the eibachs handle better than the h&r's but maybe thats why I feel the potholes more.

Cant wait to get some nice coilovers in the next 2 -3 paychecks

 

[jtmcinder]

Why do threads like this have to turn into a war?

War? I don't see any war. I see a lot of nonsense that I won't let stand.

 

[my dreamt dsm]

Gentlemen,

I want to lower my uno-G DSM with coilovers but I don't want a stiff ride, is this possible AND who makes the kit?

Thanks,
-A

OP did say coilovers. I haven't tried the rest but teins have gotten my money! My buddy just order megan so I'll have a chat with him.

 

[rb26alpha]

Another words no body knows what will give you a stock ride because lowering your car like someone said affects everything in one way or another. You have to compensate. COILOVERS WILL GIVE YOU THE BEST RIDE IN THE LONG RUN, DO TO RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT I FEEL. I LIVE IN A CITY AND THE ROADS SUCK

 

[BoredDSM]

That's sort of close. The real issue is the damping ratio. The higher the damping ratio, the less the low-frequency inputs are transmitted to the chassis, but the more the high frequency inputs are transmitted. That's why a car with stiff shocks feels stable with regard to slow roll, etc, from steering and such, but feels nasty with regard to cracks or bumps in the pavement.



I assume you mean vertical, not lateral, yes?

Hahaha, yes it was a typo. I suppose you can put down logic and theory down into words better than I can.

On my car I currently have eibach pro's with agx's and from what I have noticed, eibach's have a stiffer ride. I had h&r springs as well and with those on the car didnt feel the shock of nasty potholes or cracks in the road. Both springs were paired with the same set of agx's with setting 3 up front and 4 in back. I do however feel as if the eibachs handle better than the h&r's but maybe thats why I feel the potholes more.

Simple explanation for this is different springs have different ride heights. By giving a shock less travel you may be bottoming out the shock and at a different valve rate than when at full extension. This is why you feel a difference between switching springs and the point Jtmcinder is trying to get across. If you can replicate ride high between springs but have different spring rates, the ride would be no different on the same shock.

 

[Ozone302]

My panties are fine, thanks very much. But I'm sick of the BS in this thread. This site isn't where you go to guess about stuff you don't understand. This site is where you go to ask questions, learn, and help teach if you know stuff. And this thread has an incredible amount of total nonsense in it.

So, from the idea (I won't say "fact") that Tokico HPs are stiffer than OE shocks you infer that they are designed for lowered cars ... is that your story? Is there any other difference between an aftermarket shock and an OE shock that you would expect if the shock is designed for lowered cars? Are there any shocks that are stiffer than OE but are not designed for lowered cars?

So, by your logic, if somebody doesn't fully understand a subject then they are not allowed to tru and help by putting in input on a personal experience they had with the subject? That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Take that superior attitude elsewhere dude. Everyone is just trying to help while you're on your high horse putting everyone down like a "suspension god" or something. Chill out.

 

[rb26alpha]

why are you talking jtm, thanks ozone for your support

 

[Ozone302]

OP, just get some good springs and good shocks and be done with it.

 

[jtmcinder]

If you'd like some technical content, here goes.

What humans don't like (read as: what makes a person say "the ride sux") is oscillations in a certain range (which I don't have in front of me, but is above 5 Hz). Any input to the suspension that is above root-2 times the natural frequency of the suspension is reduced by the suspension. (Anything below root-2 times NF is actually increased.) How much the input is reduced depends on damping ratio. Most of all, however, the changes in spring rate, which change the natural frequency, that people make have rather little effect on the transmissibility of the noxious frequencies. So while spring-rate isn't irrelevant, it's a very small part of the equation. What really matters is the damping ration. And, given that must road imperfections that cause 5 Hz or higher inputs are bumps, instead of divots, the single most important thing (after not running out of travel, of course) is the high-speed compression damping. This is why most Asian shocks - especially those coming out of that factory in Taiwan, where you get to pick your favorite color - have lousy rides. They have way too much high-speed compression damping, so they have very high damping ratios in compression, so the entire bump is transmitted to the chassis and the ride is what humans don't like.

For the last freaking time, then. #1: don't run out of travel. #2: make sure the shocks are highly digressive in bump. #3 (and it's a distant #3): run softer springs.

 

[Ozone302]

If you'd like some technical content, here goes.

What humans don't like (read as: what makes a person say "the ride sux") is oscillations in a certain range (which I don't have in front of me, but is above 5 Hz). Any input to the suspension that is above root-2 times the natural frequency of the suspension is reduced by the suspension. (Anything below root-2 times NF is actually increased.) How much the input is reduced depends on damping ratio. Most of all, however, the changes in spring rate, which change the natural frequency, that people make have rather little effect on the transmissibility of the noxious frequencies. So while spring-rate isn't irrelevant, it's a very small part of the equation. What really matters is the damping ration. And, given that must road imperfections that cause 5 Hz or higher inputs are bumps, instead of divots, the single most important thing (after not running out of travel, of course) is the high-speed compression damping. This is why most Asian shocks - especially those coming out of that factory in Taiwan, where you get to pick your favorite color - have lousy rides. They have way too much high-speed compression damping, so they have very high damping ratios in compression, so the entire bump is transmitted to the chassis and the ride is what humans don't like.

For the last freaking time, then. #1: don't run out of travel. #2: make sure the shocks are highly digressive in bump. #3 (and it's a distant #3): run softer springs.

So translate that into the best spring/shock combo please. Pretty sure the OP wanted to know what to buy, not an equation of what makes the best ride.

 

[jtmcinder]

So, by your logic, if somebody doesn't fully understand a subject then they are not allowed to tru and help by putting in input on a personal experience they had with the subject?

Man, you guys are annoying.

Anyone can ask questions. People who aren't sure can even says things like "I think X, but I'm not sure" and no-one will get in their face. But when people post stuff that is total nonsense and post it as if it were fact, then people who do know not only step in to correct them, but also tell them that they are talking nonsense.

I know a lot of sites seem to use something like unconditional positive regard and act as if every opinion is valuable. That's not how it's done here. Don't like it, we'll refund the subscription fee.

 

[awd_some]

It depends mostly on how low you wanna go and the spring rate. I run the Eibach pro-kit which might be the least amount of drop besides the H&R springs. Coupled with Koni yellows at their softest setting rides pretty close to stock IMO. Adjusted around half is perfect for me and anything above - track only!

 

[jtmcinder]

It's hard to find Koni Yellows for 1Gs these days.

If the OP really wants an OTS coilover that he or she can slam and still have a decent ride, I'd ask Robispec to make a set of KW Variant 3s.

 

[triggerx]

you also have to consider tires, when we lower are cars we tend to add lower profile tires on our wheels as well. AND the bigger rims ofcourse.

More tread on the tire is going to help with a more comfortable ride, at that point though its also a matter of appearance

 

[TSiAWD666]

The ignorance in this thread and the patience of jtmcinder is astounding. Anyone in the future reading this thread for information on suspension ignore everything BUT jtmcinder's posts up to this point.

 

[dsmspick]

my dad has the eibach sports on his 1g with kyb agx. It has a good ride for a lowered car and is pretty low as well. I dont know if any one has tried it but you could run air bags. Soft ride and low.

 

[johnmel]

To the op I'm using tokico illumina and I have a 2" drop and I like them and there very comfortable to me. But the rest of the people on this thread just listen to the one and only person that is deemed the WISEMAN on here he knows his ####. So there's no point in fighting with him. But to the op its your chose take what everyone says do your researcher in it and buy what you feel comfortable with

 

[jtmcinder]

More tread on the tire is going to help with a more comfortable ride, at that point though its also a matter of appearance

Sigh. Actually, more tread means hitting more little bumps, so it usually hurts the ride. Also, wider tires often have stiffer sidewalls, so that hurts. Finally, lower profiles definitely absorb less, so they hurt the ride.

If I could put 15" or 16" wheels on the Evo for the street, I would. Too bad about the giant brakes. Plus, I hate changing wheels at events, anyway.

 

[4g63tc]

So much fail, red chiklets abound.

jTmcinder knows his suspension, and yes his patience is austounding , since this crap has been flying around too many threads , " the whole I have a little bit of knowledge and think I know it all" .

Wisemen earned the right to be called that.

 

[pyanac711]

my car has tein super street coilover suspension with electronic dampening. soften it up for around town and stiffen it up when i go to the track or when i decide to "play". love the setup!

 

[HIGHPSI4]

Jtm, thank you for taking the time to try to make things right. +1 for you sir......

 

[brane_97talon]

+1 to the patience jTm...(and I work with highly aggressive, intellectually disabled kids) ha...