Low Compression in one cylinder and white smoke

[solson1041]

Hi guys, I've been going back and forth with problems on my car, and I've had it home for the weekend (fall break from Purdue) and been taking this as an opportunity to get lots of work done on my car.

It has recently started burning white smoke and I ran a compression test and cylinder #1 has about 20psi in it, but the others are ~155.

I'm thinking this is head gasket? It is putting white smoke out the tail pipe at idle, has low compression in cyl #1 and burned up coolant in near a week. The car runs decent otherwise, and it has really just started this recently. We thought it had piston ring problems before, but those problems *seem* to have gone away, and now we're dealing with these symptoms.

Is there anything else that one cyl of bad compression, and white smoke points to? I'd really like to know as soon as possible so I could get this repaired before I have to go back.

Thanks so much.

 

[Calan]

Sounds like a head gasket. Do a leak-down test or coolant system pressure test.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/336535-do-you-have-blown-head-gasket.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/338152-compression-leak-down-testing.html

 

[BogusSVO]

I will have to vote with a bad HG, blown from combustion chamber to water jacket. This would be the common failure

The other option would be a cracked head or block... neither is too common

 

[solson1041]

I don't have access to a leakdown tester, and no shops in my area are doing it for a reasonable price, otherwise I'd be all over that.

I will have to vote with a bad HG, blown from combustion chamber to water jacket. This would be the common failure

The other option would be a cracked head or block... neither is too common

Oh don't you go saying things like that! My block is perfect and will run for another 500k miles! Don't you say otherwise!

I just called my local O'Riley auto parts, they've got the head gasket for ~30 bucks. I really want to just get this car back on the road, I deliver pizza and having a smoking car is really not a good thing to be driving around in. I know you're supposed to replace the timing belts and water pump and all kinds of hoses when you do this, but I just can't be doing all that. I'm broke and need this thing driving again. Can I just open up the head, slide in a new gasket and be on my way till next summer or worst case, the new year?

Is there anything I can do right now to better isolate the problem diagnosis? I just really want to get this straightened out and "patched up" with the day I've got left of fall break.

Thanks so much guys.

 

[Calan]

If you've never pulled the head or messed with the timing, a day will be pushing it to do it right. Replacing the head gasket and retiming it isn't something you want to rush through.

 

[BogusSVO]

Well you can just slam a head gasket and go, and pray that fixes it.

But the head should be checked out

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/413772-how-clean-head-gasket-surface.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

You should do these two things at a minuim.

Now if you find that the head is warped and need to be surfaced.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

Since you have the head off do this mod too
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html


When was the Time belt and componeants were replaced?

I would hate that you replace the HG, then a mile or a thousand down the road the t-belt snaps and bends the valves.

But I tend to like people that do not change there time belts like they should.
If the time belt breaks, you will be looking at something like this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

 

[hypergenesis]

If you've never pulled the head or messed with the timing, a day will be pushing it to do it right. Replacing the head gasket and retiming it isn't something you want to rush through.

Very true took me 3 days to do everything including prep work and other components that were taken off.

Armin

 

[luv2rallye]

With low compression on 1, white smoke, and going through coolant, it will be the HG - you don't need more tests! But it's not something you can "patch up" like with a can of Stop-Leak or something - you will have to replace it. If you're that short on $ you can just replace the HG only. You will have to remove the timing belt, intake, and exhaust manifolds, drain the coolant, remove hoses, etc to do it however so plan a weekend for it. And tighten the head bolts in the proper sequence and to the proper torque or you will doing this again.

 

[solson1041]

Well you can just slam a head gasket and go, and pray that fixes it.

But the head should be checked out

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/413772-how-clean-head-gasket-surface.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html

You should do these two things at a minuim.

Now if you find that the head is warped and need to be surfaced.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...face-4g63t-cylinder-head-mls-head-gasket.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...0613-why-not-let-your-head-belt-surfaced.html

Since you have the head off do this mod too
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html


When was the Time belt and componeants were replaced?

I would hate that you replace the HG, then a mile or a thousand down the road the t-belt snaps and bends the valves.

But I tend to like people that do not change there time belts like they should.
If the time belt breaks, you will be looking at something like this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341218-how-change-valve-guides-4g63t-head.html

Regardless of the timing belt, "slamming" in a new head gasket will fix the problem, or the problem wasn't the HG in the first place. But yeah, I planned on cleaning and checking for warp.

The timing belt was replaced fairly recently, I inspected it before I started any of my work this weekend and it looked fine, so that's why I'm wanting to do the minimum. I'm aware of the dangers of not maintaining a timing belt, but at this point, a new one isn't going on whether I replace the HG or not.

To clarify, I'll have my Dad and brother helping, my Dad's been around cars his whole life, but he's more of an oldschool tech than this turbo 4cylinder stuff. So it's not really the first time anyone's dealing with timing and HG stuff on cars, but the first time on this one. If we don't get it done, I am able to leave it till next weekend and finish it up, though that's obviously not ideal.

Is there any sort of vfaq on a head gasket replacement? or perhaps some related video? Googling hasn't really brought me good results. Thanks again for the help guys, I appreciate it.

Is there a particular "Order of Operations" when it comes to tearing down the top end to get to the gasket? I don't wanna go diving in and figure out you've gotta take the throttle body off before the valve cover or it won't fit or something like that. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[luv2rallye]

This guy is doing a mini rebuild so overdoes parts replacement (and even perhaps proceedure) but scroll down to "HEAD REMOVAL PROCEDURES" for the idea: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/99037-head-removal-steps.html.
I prefer to unbolt intake and exhaust mani's from the head so you don't have to disconnect the other end of these, and you don't have to remove the hood because it's so heavy to lift out but everyone does it differently. If you're going to work on the exhaust and intake mani stuff anyway or do a rebuild, then his way is slick.

 

[Calan]

That guy ^ seems to be removing some stuff that isn't necessary for a replacing the head. (Radiator and crank bolt?)

With no A/C and and all of my wiring and stuff re-arranged, I can pull my IM in about 5 minutes. Otherwise, I would leave it bolted to the head and disconnect it at the TB. I usually just drop the turbo off the EM and leave it attached to the head, depending on how motivated I am to lift the extra weight.

It's also possible to leave the timing in place by zip-tieing the belt to the gears and pulling them off the cams...but it's tricky and not really worth it IMO. If you have the timing tools, just depress the tensioner with the rod and pull the belt; then when the head is back on all you have to do is slip the belt back on and release the tension, rather than readjusting the tensioner pulley and all of that crap.

 

[brngrhd]

I don't like the zip tie of the belt to the cams. it is easy for the belt to skip a tooth or two on the crank pulley... when was the last timing belt on the car? might as well put a new belt on with the head gasket.

 

[solson1041]

Thanks a bunch for the replies guys, I got the engine mostly dismantled last night and I'll be working on the exhaust and timing belt end today, so hopefully that should go quickly, and I can get the new gasket in as well.

Thanks again, i appreciate all the help

Edit: I got down to the gasket, and it was actually fine. However, it turned out that have a badly chipped exhaust valve over cylinder 1... So I'm getting the head rebuilt while I'm at it. My dad insisted on doing it right if we weren't just replacing the head gasket, so he helped me out with the costs of it. He seemed to think the head problems could be causing the coolant to burn, so I'm hoping I get it back from the shop and put it all back in, and have a great engine.

My bottom end needs some attention, but I think that'll have to wait till next summer for that one. Anyways, thanks for the help. Hopefully it goes smoothly from here out.

 

[luv2rallye]

I don't see how a chipped exhaust valve would burn coolant but sometimes a bad HG will separate under torque which may be what's happening.

 

[solson1041]

I don't see how a chipped exhaust valve would burn coolant but sometimes a bad HG will separate under torque which may be what's happening.

yeah, thats basically what we're hoping for. The block doesn't seem to have any cracks, so we're really at a loss as to any clear cause of the coolant burning. Either way, the head needed rebuilt and we'll go from there. hopefully the valve was causing some small other problem related to the coolant.

Also... shortly after I noticed the coolant burning, I started to notice my turbo making an almost wheezing sound from like 3-7 psi... I assume this is from the valve chip making its way through the exhaust.. How badly did this screw me?

 

[luv2rallye]

Also... shortly after I noticed the coolant burning, I started to notice my turbo making an almost wheezing sound from like 3-7 psi... I assume this is from the valve chip making its way through the exhaust.. How badly did this screw me?

Not good. Check turbo shaft end play all directions and also while turning shaft to see if fins are hitting walls.

Also if the turbo has a cracked water jacket wall, that will allow water into the cylinder for burning. With hoses off turbo, pressurize cooling system to see if water goes in/out turbo.

 

[solson1041]

Not good. Check turbo shaft end play all directions and also while turning shaft to see if fins are hitting walls.

Also if the turbo has a cracked water jacket wall, that will allow water into the cylinder for burning. With hoses off turbo, pressurize cooling system to see if water goes in/out turbo.

Thanks for that. I'll give the turbo a good inspection once I'm back home to the car. I may just have to use this as an excuse to early upgrade to a 16g turbo . Though I am aware that I can't really up the boost much without doing injectors and fuel pump and whatnot.. Also, turbos are expensive... so we'll see.

Thanks for the help so far everyone.

 

[crankwalker95]

Bad rings could cause the same problems......

 

[BogusSVO]

Bad rings could cause the same problems......

How so? could you explain in more detail?

 

[crankwalker95]

Worn piston rings can cause oil consumption in two ways. Oddly enough, you can have high oil consumption caused by bad rings and still have fairly good compression test. If the engine ingests a lot of dirt for extended time, like driving on a lot of gravel roads, it can wear out the top piston rings. This might increase oil consumption dramatically with only a small compression loss. Oil wiper rings being badly worn or stuck from being excessively dirty can also cause high oil consumption. The consumption here is from oil being drawn up the cylinder wall past the rings and into the combustion chamber to be burned. This can result in loss of oil up to one quart in 200 miles of normal driving, or one quart in 100 miles of driving with heavy throttle or high engine speed. Smoking out the tail pipe may be similar to that caused by worn valve guides, but you are less likely to notice the big puff on throttle after over run. So when you see white smoke in high mileage cars it's rings a lot of times

 

[BogusSVO]

Worn piston rings can cause oil consumption in two ways. Oddly enough, you can have high oil consumption caused by bad rings and still have fairly good compression test. If the engine ingests a lot of dirt for extended time, like driving on a lot of gravel roads, it can wear out the top piston rings. This might increase oil consumption dramatically with only a small compression loss. Oil wiper rings being badly worn or stuck from being excessively dirty can also cause high oil consumption. The consumption here is from oil being drawn up the cylinder wall past the rings and into the combustion chamber to be burned. This can result in loss of oil up to one quart in 200 miles of normal driving, or one quart in 100 miles of driving with heavy throttle or high engine speed. Smoking out the tail pipe may be similar to that caused by worn valve guides, but you are less likely to notice the big puff on throttle after over run. So when you see white smoke in high mileage cars it's rings a lot of times

Yes you are correct on this.... But you missed one key point
The OP is having WHITE smoke, and that is water/coolent burning
Oil burning would be a BLUE smoke

Also the OP has not mentioned anything about using oil, just coolent

 

[crankwalker95]

He said white smoke, Oil smoke is not always blue. Haven't you seen hondas . Im curious to hear about the oil usage now. For some reason I feel like perhaps it is burning the oil and thats just overlooked on his part

 

[bryanwheat]

Apparently you didn't read thru the thread and just made an assumption. He has verified that the valve was chipped and that is what was causing the compression problem. He also stated that the car was using coolant. There is likely a secondary problem though causing the coolant to burn though.

 

[crankwalker95]

apparently this forum doesn't go by the day. It just adds to the last statement genius. I figured that after further reading. I don't need the help of your ignorance to point that out. The guy needs help, I was talking to him from experience not what I read out of magazines. Thanks

 

[bryanwheat]

apparently this forum doesn't go by the day. It just adds to the last statement genius. I figured that after further reading. I don't need the help of your ignorance to point that out. The guy needs help, I was talking to him from experience not what I read out of magazines. Thanks

Read out of magazines huh, that's a nice one.