looking to make some more power

[giovanniv]

Ok well i recently purchased a 95 eclipse gst and i dont know what route to take to get to my goal. My goal is to be making more or less 300hp. I want to defently get a bigger turbo but what size would be reasonable? What kind of supporting mods do i defently need when i install a bigger turbo?

 

[oVaBoost]

You should get a new dsm link just save up your money. A Evo3 16g would work great on your car but since its a 2gen make sure you get the adapter kit for the 16g cause if you just get the turbo you will run into problems like you will need that kit to finish it off since the 16g is designed for a 1g car. also would would need to open up exhaust since that turbo will throw out alot of heat and air since its bigger and wont lag. also get a diff bov since the stock 2g is plastic and leaks boost. these are the mods you should do.

*mitsubishi Big Evo3 16g with adapter kit and intake pipe
*3" down pipe and full exhaust system megan racing would work good for the price or your choice
*After market Blow off Valve your choice I would do 1g Dsm and i got one if you need one.
*Boost controller your choice i would do TurboXs for a start and boost guage.
* walbro 255lph fuel pump with 550cc injectors if needed
*Dsm link or some kind of tuning software
* Maybe even do a mitsubishi ML head gasket and Studs that way you could run up to 19-21 psi of boost and you wont worry about blowing out that gasket. up to you tho thats what i would do. but these mods should get you around 300hp easy unless i forgot something well front mount intercooler if you got the money for that cause i know there not cheap im jus trying to help you out in the cheapest ways but there are not cheap parts. jus save you some money if you need anything let me know. those parts alone should all be like around 1500 to 2000

 

[giovanniv]

thanks for all the help guys! Any other tips would be great!

 

[robinho609]

once you get the dsmlink and 16g you will be ready to roll

 

[rEclipserGST]

He's only 15, unless his dad is RICH.... stop spittin nonsense at him. Between school, friends, hw, family, & other activities... he wont have the time to get a sweet job and shell out the money for the Evo3 16g, FMIC, Fuel mods, & DSM Link.

Let me just say the CHEAP way of getting a lil more out of your car is this:

Boost controller - whether it be an auto or a manual.... u will feel the difference
Get a Boost gauge - the stock one is GARBO
Get a full exhaust - its not NEEDED at this point, but it does help... especially in the long run
Air Inake - K&N or Dejon or whatever you want. It helps a ton
and maybe a bov so you sound sweet.

Thats HONESTLY all i can suggest to you since your only 15. BUT 14b turbos or even 16g's big or small or evo3 will get you far.

Expect to throw up 2 g's...

Im extremely surprised no1 said MAINTENANCE yet. I guess i will say it. Please service the car.

Oil, Fuel, Filters, Tranny fluid, belts, battery. It saves time, stress, and money.

Good Luck, young padawan

 

[dsm-onster]

The small 16g is the best turbo between the 16g variants for this goal. The big 16g or evo3 16g is an absolute waste of spool speed for this level of performance. In fact, the small 16g is more efficient than either at this level of performance, this means lower boost for 300whp.

The 14b can achieve this goal as well. And they can be had for $150 and in good workign condition. Swap on a 16g turbine housing (find a blown 16g or just get a used housing for cheap) for a guarantee that the 14b can achieve this goal. A blown ebay fake 16g turbine housing is just fine and will do the same thing. A blown ebay 16g are a dime a dozen. The 14b will then be half of a 16g (turbine side) with the smallest compressor wheel that will reach your goal. And infact the 14b compressor can go quite a ways beyond your goal. Any 1g m/t turbo DSM has the 14b stock. This is the best turbo for your goal: meets the goal, fastest spool, reliabl, and most affordable.

 

[ove_98 TSI]

Like you i just turned 15 but ive had the car for over a year and some advice i can think of is staying away from some ebay parts even if your short on money just save up, or used is an alternative. Some ebay things are ok fmic, ic tubing, like me i have ebay exhaust and it works fine and hasnt started to rust or anything,its the things like turbos and some BOV's that will give you problems, looking on the classifieds here you can find some cheap stuff i paid 200 for my MHI 16g, 250 for my ssac front mount and i think 60 or 80 for my hks wastegate i got some other greddy stuff to for cheap, i would say save up for dsmlink but i have no experience with that. I plan on buying that with these next paychecks i get, then i can dyno mine, and just follow what all these other guys on here say there all experienced, and will be glad to help
Follow the Upgrade Path in the Tech Articles that helps too
have fun modding

 

[MattratfTSI]

hey Im a young DSMer like yourself,18 and if your on a tight budget like I was (and still am) it can be hard and sometimes frustrating to try and dump money into upgrades for your car while keeping up the maintainence too. just take it one step at a time, you dont need to rush the build. start off with the upgrade paths in the tech section and go from there. good luck

 

[giovanniv]

Ya i would say i would be lucky to get around 200-300 bucks a month. maintance on the car is basically up to date, as my dad is a mechanic and owned a quick little dsm not to long ago. Turbo wise i plan on going with a big 16g but before all that i am going to get ALL the parts that i need before. I am going to start looking for a boost controller, some type of FMIC i already have a cold air intake, a nice BOV probably a type s bov or a hks ssq, i also already have the 3 guages for like boost and temp and all that. Then ill get a nice 3in exhaust or 2 1/2 i dont know. what else am i missing?


OH i just found an evo 8 turbo for sale for 175 obo with 18k miles. Is that a good deal? how many lbs of boost will that put out? would that get me to 300hp?

 

[dsm-onster]

It won't bolt on.

 

[giovanniv]

oh ok I knew that =P. Around how much should i look to be paying for a used 16g?

 

[MattratfTSI]

about 250-300. depends on how new I guess and how much wear is on it. just keep looking on here on the classifieds. just make sure you dont get an ebay turbo!!! oh yeah, if your planning on getting to your 300hp youll need to get the boost up to about 20lbs on that 16g so youll need some bigger injectors and a fuel controller for sure. im tellin ya, you cant go wrong by following the upgrade path on this site. have you checked it out yet?

 

[giovanniv]

As a matter of fact i just read it yesterday, and it was very very helpful! But what is the max lbs of boost you can get from a big 16g?

 

[DECODER22]

if your on a budget pick up a 14b for like 75 dollars some 560 evo injectors 125-150 a safc for around 100 Walbro Fuel Pump there around 100 and a wide band so you can tune

 

[brownfinger]

I like what rEclipserGST had to say...maintanence! No offense, but you should learn your car inside and out before you go breaking all of the important little parts that you don't know what they do. Plus, again no offense, a GST already has 200hp on a FWD car. Unless you have a lot of track racing experience, I wonder if you're just trying to kill yourself! My 93 GS is totally stock non-turbo, and it will get me arrested whenever I feel like it in any of the states that I am still allowed to drive in
You know why my car is un-modified? I've watched my older brother ruin so many perfectly good cars by getting his tuning info from magazine advertisements. You have to do what these guys say: With a bigger turbo, bigger injectors are critical if you don't want to melt your engine. It will run lean with a bigger turbo, factory injectors were chosen to match the factory turbo. You'll need a bigger fuel pump to feed the injectors. DSMlink then allows you to tune everything to work properly together.
Follow these guys' advice. They learned all of this stuff for you, buy ruining perfectly good cars, trying to do what you're trying to do. Supporting mods first...then giant turbos and 300hp
Have fun...Go to MOD 08 @ the factory

 

[PieEyedPiper]

The small 16g is the best turbo between the 16g variants for this goal. The big 16g or evo3 16g is an absolute waste of spool speed for this level of performance. In fact, the small 16g is more efficient than either at this level of performance, this means lower boost for 300whp.

The 14b can achieve this goal as well. And they can be had for $150 and in good workign condition. Swap on a 16g turbine housing (find a blown 16g or just get a used housing for cheap) for a guarantee that the 14b can achieve this goal. A blown ebay fake 16g turbine housing is just fine and will do the same thing. A blown ebay 16g are a dime a dozen. The 14b will then be half of a 16g (turbine side) with the smallest compressor wheel that will reach your goal. And infact the 14b compressor can go quite a ways beyond your goal. Any 1g m/t turbo DSM has the 14b stock. This is the best turbo for your goal: meets the goal, fastest spool, reliabl, and most affordable.

Was it not determined, about a year or two ago, that the idea the small 16g is more efficient and faster spooling than the evo3 proved to be well, not quite accurate? I've searched for the thread but I must not be using the right keywords. People toss the 16g terms into every thread there is on this board

Perhaps I recall only bits and pieces of the storyline.

 

[dsm-onster]

You do only recall bits and pieces. The small 16g is not ideal AFTER a certain point. Nor is any other turbo. If you can prove me wrong yourself then get to it .

The small 16g spools faster than the evo3 16g always and forever. Anyone denying this has not had experience with both turbos on the same setup. Tell us, how is it possible for a smaller compressor not to spin faster (spool faster) when the IDENTICAL turbine wheel and turbine housing is being used on the other end? Now, if you feel you understand radial compressor theory well enough to delve into the reason why the small 16g will not perform better than the evo3 16g at 18-19 psi, then get to it .

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I'll see if I can dig up the thread I mentioned later on, not that I doubt you. I'm sure you're correct.
One reason I can think of that the smaller compressor wheel of the s16g and the larger wheel of the evo3 could have similar spool characteristics is that the evo3 uses a lighter metal to offset the increase in size. <---a bit and a piece.

Not that I'm arguing one side or the other. I simply don't have enough information to go around saying one thing or another. Thats why I asked in the first place - re: bits and pieces.

But I'll try not to derail this thread any further. If I do find that thread I'll just PM you.
Thanks!

 

[dsm-onster]

My small 16g spools to 20+ psi by 3100rpms with the stock cams and 3300rpms with 272s. The evo3 16g cannot do this. The lighter weight is to bring the spool down to a reasonable amount considering it is meant for a street car. That doesn't mean it can negate the inertial force of it's larger diameter. It CANNOT spool faster than a small 16g. The evo3 16g car I've 'monkeyied with' has the same spool speed with stock cams as my small16g powered car with 272s. The evo3 16g is also as laggy than other larger turbos that flow more. It is a great turbo for the price, but is not as fast a spool as many lead on. They just don't know that every turbo that size should spool at least that fast .

I think that a deviation to a point is worth it for this thread, since the OP is asking a general question in the first place. Why buy a smaller turbo if a better flowing turbo is about the same price and spools the same? . . .My answer: I side that it does not spool the same. And that it's worth the spool difference considering the goal. Good job introducing the point about the thinner compressor blades and lighter turbine wheel material. I do not intend to "flame", "attack", or "badger" at all. This is the net. And it's pointless banter to someone who is looking for advice. And i respect you, it's not like I havn't read your posts. Regardless, efficiency trumps weight and lower drag (Ball Bearing tech) if the flow goal is the same. Look at B-W and holset turbos vs. Garrett turbos. BB tech cannot out perform the better efficiency of the compressors that B-W and holset have. B-W and holset compressors take less energy to rotate at high speed while maintaining a certain boost. They also achieve higher boost at a lower compressor rpm. Since less energy is needed to achieve that boost, less exhaust gases are needed to reach that boost. The same applies to the small 16g.

Yes, at the end of all things the evo3 16g flows more than the big 16g, and the big 16g flows more than the small 16g. but the OP won't operate the small 16g in choke, but in the sweet spot with his goal. He would be happy to have a faster spool than another turbo that can flow only 4 lb/min more.

An interesting side is that MHI built the small 16g after the big 16g. The big 16g was no longer porduced by mhi in mass quantities. It was replaced by the evo3 16g for the evo3 car and the small 16g for any other mitsu motors. The small 16g is newer than the big 16g.

 

[giovanniv]

So basically my best bet would be to go with a small 16g turbo right from what im reading? Faster spool but not as much boost as a big 16g right? Im not saying that im going to get the turbo any time soon im just getting ideas and planning on what kinda setup i should look up so i can slowly but surely get some money saved up and buy all my supporting mods for a bigger turbo.

 

[DECODER22]

I like what rEclipserGST had to say...maintanence! No offense, but you should learn your car inside and out before you go breaking all of the important little parts that you don't know what they do. Plus, again no offense, a GST already has 200hp on a FWD car. Unless you have a lot of track racing experience, I wonder if you're just trying to kill yourself! My 93 GS is totally stock non-turbo, and it will get me arrested whenever I feel like it in any of the states that I am still allowed to drive in
You know why my car is un-modified? I've watched my older brother ruin so many perfectly good cars by getting his tuning info from magazine advertisements. You have to do what these guys say: With a bigger turbo, bigger injectors are critical if you don't want to melt your engine. It will run lean with a bigger turbo, factory injectors were chosen to match the factory turbo. You'll need a bigger fuel pump to feed the injectors. DSMlink then allows you to tune everything to work properly together.
Follow these guys' advice. They learned all of this stuff for you, buy ruining perfectly good cars, trying to do what you're trying to do. Supporting mods first...then giant turbos and 300hp
Have fun...Go to MOD 08 @ the factory

well said

 

[dsm-onster]

So basically my best bet would be to go with a small 16g turbo right from what im reading? Faster spool but not as much boost as a big 16g right? Im not saying that im going to get the turbo any time soon im just getting ideas and planning on what kinda setup i should look up so i can slowly but surely get some money saved up and buy all my supporting mods for a bigger turbo.

I would look at the 14b and upgrade to a 7cm^2 16g turbine housing, if you can meet your goal. If think you'll want a little more later, get the small 16g.

To run the 14b, any 16g, or bolton 18g turbo, you'll need a j-pipe, oil feed line, plug for oil fiter housing, oil return line, and 1g style intercooler piping (either upgrade piping for a 1g, or stock which I don't recommend)... Swapping in a 16g allows you to later upgrade to a the evo3 16g which has more lag but more power potential.

To run any 20g turbo, you'll need the above but you'll need an intercooler piping elbow instead of a j-pipe.

You can keep your 2g oil feed line from the filter housing, use 2g intercooler piping (upgrade or not), and a piping elbow like for the 20g, an adapter fitting for the feed, and hack your return line, to upgrade to a turbo that is 400whp capable and spools faster than a 20g. Not to mention will be MUCH more affordable and yet just as reliable. Like a garrett 50-trim or holset HX35. The hx35 will spool about as fast as the small 16g, BTW.

There are several paths for you to take. By far the 14b swap is the most affordable and opens up the MHI turbos for you to use later. If you want more later but are sure you'll never want more than 350whp the small 16g is for you. If you want about 300whp now and no more, the 14b is plenty, and you can swap in the 16g 7cm^2 turbine housing easily if your finding it difficult to meet that goal with that 14b. I wouldn't suggest upgrading to a bigger 16g now, because it is about the same cost to get a turbo that spools about the same or faster and is just as reliable. So, if you are very sure you will want more than 35owhp later, then look at path 3.

And as mentioned and above all, follow the upgrade path for your car starting with maintenance.

 

[giovanniv]

ya ill probably end up going with a small 16g or big i dont know. But for now im going to start saving up for all the mods to backup the turbo.

 

[bastarddsm]

drink lots of keystone.

 

[giovanniv]

sure?

 

[maximumbob]

Having spend way too much money on an old car, I can say that the first thing I learned was to do maintenance. A '95 is now about 13yrs old. Hows that coolant, brake fluid, etc look? Fluids cost money to replace but are an integral part of the whole picture. When was the timing belt replaced?(seriously as in the seller handed you a receipt with a date on it) A snapped belt with definitely sideline your car for a while in this budget group.

Now that I have stressed maintenance, read. Read all over this board and others. The single best feature on this and other boards is the search button. I have had a million questions and 999,999 have been answered by that button.

Next come upgrades. Each upgrade should be a carefully researched and contemplated addition. The usual story is a thread about how I bolted on such and such part today and it doesn't feel any faster than yesterday. Read other's reviews on parts but also take note of other mods done to their car. A giant external fuel pump won't make you an faster at 300whp.

If I were in your shoes(I was several years ago), I would consider the following list; after performing all maintenance including fluids, plugs, wires, belts, water pump, brake pads, etc. After all that you will have gained the technical experience required to own a DSM. I saw a signature one time, and it stuck in my head. "DSMs, turning people into mechanics everday"

- 3" exhaust O2 back. Get rid of that cat and get a die grinder and port your O2 housing.
- Boost controller and gauge. Turning up the boost is wonderful, but like everything else in life only when done in moderation. Until you can look at knock, WBO2, or EGT keep it in reason.
- Use a 1G BOV. Those other BOVs are expensive and won't make your car any faster than a regular 1gen one at this power level. For UIC piping look on here for a tech article showing you how to make your own. Then have a shop or buddy weld on the flange.
-14b turbo. Awesome compared to the T25. I installed mine and only bought gaskets, oil supply line, 1G jpipe. I reused my drain from T25 just file the inner side of the holes. For IC piping I used a 1G jpipe and then used the stock S rubber pipe. It just kind flexes up to fit. Also port the compressor and turbine housings before you install it.
- Fuel injectors. The choices are too numerous to sum up in a few lines. Read alot before choosing. When you upgrade injectors you need to tell the ECU they have changed. Severals ways to do this, but DSMlink is wonderful, easy to use, and access to those forums is worth a considerable amount. SAFC is ok and works well at this power level so consider that as well. Also with fuel injectors comes the need for a pump. About the cheapest way is a Walboro 190 which in general doesn't need a pressure regulator. I went with a 255 and fuel pressure regulator just for peace of mind. I also planned on bigger than the 14b in time.

Of course this also doesn't touch on two other important things; suspension and tires. Those are also crucial to putting down power in a FWD.

Also neglected are things that break once you go beyond stock power levels. A weak clutch will reveal itself quickly. Wheel hop will shatter your differential in a hurry. Let off. It's not worth trying to look cool or running the "best run ever" only to have your transmission take a hike.

Several applicable sayings that will encounter
"Fast, Cheap, Reliable. Pick two."
"Mod Cheap, Mod twice."
"I have xxxwhp. I NEED more."

Bob