General knock under any load

[ucancallmedebo]

Well I got bored so I did some riding around without AFPR. I am begining to think that the SAfC creates just as much problem as it solves. "without an AFPR anyway" I take away fuel,more timing and knock. I dont take away fuel and i get rich knock till about 4k rpm under light throttle application. If I cruise in 5th at 80, downshift to 3rd and make a pull. Zero knock . otherwise if start a pull at a lower RPM or lighter throttle angle i start to get knock. It appears that once knock starts it dosent want to stop. otherwise one would think with my setup as it is, the knock rich knock would fade away as the mixture get leaner at higher RPM's and that just is not the case. On the third gear pull, starting at 75mph, my 02's where .82 dropping to .78 near redline,zero knock. I am curious as to if anyone elses car runs with such a low 02 with no knock. Oh, with the new ecu the 02's are the same as before so that rules out that thought. Looks like shes gonna sit till I get the FPR. ....

 

[DSMatMSU]

ok, here we go.... i have the EXACT same problem (i have safcII and 650s)... low o2's and there is no way i could be running that lean.... the lowfueltrim sits right around 100 with the afc at -18... but the mids and highs wont budge from ~80% ... no matter how lean i go... my o2s never go above .85.... and are usually around .83 WOT, even if i go down to -16%, -10%... also, the EGTs never go above 1600... AFC settings seem to be all over the place, and seemingly not doing ANYTHING to the tune, o2 volts dont seem to respond to the AFC settings, EVER... ive got it at basicly -20% across the board right now, i can somewhat keep the low trims in check with it at -18%....

SOOO... i find out the other day the local auto-parts store sold me a universl N/A o2 sensor.... SOOOO.... they are giving me my money back and im waiting on one i ordered offline for a TURBO.... I hope it does the trick because this is driving me insane.... the other o2 sensor didnt look much different than any other o2 sensor ive seen... but theres gotta be some difference; i mean really low o2 volts, wacked out fuel trims.... its gotta be IT....

15 psi, had to get out of WOT due to boost creep (ive got something coming to help this, so im not even Fing with tuning untill i get it takin care of).... :thumbdown: so i just let off, and tried to hold it at 15 psi the best i could... i usually have 0 knock, i think i this run took away a little more fuel than usuall... prob around -24 - 22 on the AFC... but i still got the same o2 volts as i did at -16 - 14 on the AFC
TIMA O2 TPS MAFS RPM KN

38.00 0.74 19.61 119.51 3125.00 0.00
36.00 0.64 81.57 377.40 3250.00 0.00
30.00 0.57 100.00 421.43 3250.00 0.00
29.00 0.78 100.00 459.17 3218.75 0.00
28.00 0.80 100.00 515.78 3250.00 0.00
26.00 0.82 100.00 578.68 3312.50 0.00
24.00 0.84 100.00 660.45 3375.00 0.00
22.00 0.84 100.00 748.51 3437.50 0.00
20.00 0.84 99.61 830.28 3531.25 0.00
19.00 0.84 85.88 849.15 3593.75 0.00
19.00 0.84 85.88 855.44 3687.50 3.00
19.00 0.82 85.88 893.18 3750.00 3.00
19.00 0.82 85.88 924.63 3875.00 8.00
17.00 0.82 84.31 949.79 3937.50 8.00
17.00 0.82 83.53 981.24 4000.00 7.00
17.00 0.82 82.75 1012.69 4125.00 7.00
16.00 0.82 80.00 1063.01 4187.50 7.00
16.00 0.82 79.22 1119.62 4281.25 7.00
16.00 0.84 78.04 1151.07 4406.25 6.00
17.00 0.84 77.65 1182.52 4437.50 6.00
17.00 0.84 76.47 1226.55 4562.50 6.00
17.00 0.84 69.02 1258.00 4531.25 6.00
17.00 0.84 60.39 1258.00 4656.25 5.00
17.00 0.84 60.00 1270.58 4750.00 5.00
17.00 0.84 58.82 1308.32 4750.00 5.00
16.00 0.82 58.43 1283.16 4906.25 5.00
16.00 0.84 58.04 1314.61 5000.00 4.00
16.00 0.84 57.65 1314.61 5031.25 4.00
17.00 0.82 57.65 1377.51 5156.25 4.00
18.00 0.82 57.25 1364.93 5281.25 9.00
18.00 0.82 53.73 1339.77 5375.00 9.00
19.00 0.84 52.55 1283.16 5375.00 8.00
20.00 0.82 52.16 1302.03 5531.25 17.00
17.00 0.82 52.16 1295.74 5531.25 17.00
17.00 0.82 52.16 1358.64 5656.25 17.00
17.00 0.82 51.76 1295.74 5625.00 16.00
18.00 0.82 49.80 1327.19 5781.25 16.00
18.00 0.82 48.63 1314.61 5781.25 16.00
19.00 0.82 48.63 1333.48 5875.00 16.00
19.00 0.82 48.63 1371.22 5906.25 16.00
19.00 0.82 48.24 1289.45 6031.25 15.00
20.00 0.82 47.45 1308.32 5906.25 15.00
21.00 0.82 45.10 1270.58 6000.00 15.00
21.00 0.82 40.78 1302.03 6062.50 15.00

 

[ucancallmedebo]

U got to get back to me if that turbo oxegen sensor fixes that prob. Idle your car and run the afc richer and richer until it stalls or is gonna stall,and take a look at your 02 reading. My max is like .91 . I never get anywhere close to this exept right when shifting gears for a split second .87volts. I think that everyone should try this just to see if there is a variation in max 02 reading at full rich at idle. This would help some of us who dont have the normal .86-.91 at WOT. I would bet o2 voltage might be more accurate if it was gauged as a % of the max volts the sensor could read. My car reads .91 full rich and around .80-.82 at WOT so this is about 90% of the full rich reading. I am curious to know if other people get the same % as me. WOT / FuLL Rich = %. This is at 16psi with 255 rewired with 10 gauge with 14v at pump. So i know I am at least overly rich.

 

[DSMatMSU]

well i got the new o2 in today, at first it would cycle up to like .91 volts (up in that area at least) and now its back to the normal .85 - . 82 area.... im having some idle surge problems? can that affect o2 VOLTS under WOT?? im guessing no, but maybe ive got some bad wiring in the o2 sensor part of the harness?

 

[sweet97]

I just read a post where I believe vfaq was referred to on the stock 02's being poor to get an accurate reading from. A wideband, though expensive(I paid $325.) is very accurate.

 

[DSMatMSU]

well i noticed today upon start up, when the motor is fairly cold, the o2s will acutally go up to .91 -93 area.... but as soon as it warms up and idle surge kicks in, i start getting off idle knock, low o2's, but under WOT ill have 0 knock and say .82 o2s.... i just swapped to this 2g TB, i rebuilt it to fix the shaft seals for boost leaks, i have a 90 so i had to solder in the new TPS and the plug for the ISC was the same.... i need to test the ISC i guess, i eliminated the FIAV when i was rebuilding it and blocked off the coolant hoses.... no idea if this is related or not...

 

[94EclipseGST]

I changed my FIAV and eliminated the PCV valve by recirculating it, and that made all the difference with my part-throttle knock. If you seach for my posts, you'll find lots of information about how I got rid of the part-throttle knock.

Also, I had a tendency to richen my fuel trims when I got knock, and realized I was getting knock because I was too rich.

 

[ucancallmedebo]

got my afpr installed today and if makes a marked improvement over not having one. I made my base 38 with hose off and its about 33 or so with the vacuum line connected. I upgraded to my injectors to 750 as I was getting 110% duty cycle at 19psi on the 555's. My fuel trims after logging today seem rich 89L 93M 92H with the afc zeroed out and taking fuel out with the afc seem to work but then I get the timing problem again. I think I'm gonna drop my base to 36 and it should lean it out a bit without the timing issues. Anyone have any insight as how rich/lean the keydiver chip runs. Its hard to tell if I am getting rich or lean knock, but I assume it is more toward rich since my trims show rich. I know the fuel trims are not WOT only cruise but you see what I mean. I put the old Gtec in and did a pull or horsepower. At 3350 lbs on 1/4 tank with some timing being pulled I got 293hp and 303tq. Not bad for AWD on 93 . If I can get her runnin right and a couple more psi maybe 325 .Is base stock FP 36 37.5 or 38?

 

[sweet97]

Is your keydiver burned for the 750's? I just got mykeydiver yesterday. Burned for 650's and 45 psi base fp, line off. Trying to stretch the 650's as I bought an RS60T. Do you have a Scanmaster or wideband? They are very helpful and I believe I saw the scanmaster at $229. but not sure where.
Checked out your mod list. Do you have the Spearco 2-221 which I believe is optional on RRE's 1g FMIC which usually comes with a Griffin core. I have the Spearco 2-221 and was wondering how well it worked as i got mine mounted in December and have not really driven with it except for a quick ride on Christmas. can't run 750's without a chip for them or you will get high timing, I tried without a chip when I had 720's. Mark

 

[ucancallmedebo]

the chip says 780 but works for 750FIc which I have most delfi 780 only flow 750. I dont really know what core it is but it looks like this. http://www.dsmtuners.com/parts/images/rre-1gfmic.jpg
As far as I can tell it flows great. I have yet to feel the pipe to the throttle body get warm at 19psi. I only have mmcd right now. I was at 110% duty cycle on the 550's and now am at upper 70's low 80's. I am most likely gonna order a wideband cause I cant tell if the knock I get know is from rich/ lean. My car is very sensitive to timing cause if I pull more than 5% on the afc my part th knock really shoots up. I heard somewhere the keydiver chip it tuned to the rich side of safe. I'm gonna try lowereing the base FPressure when I get a chance. I am gonna try to get my fuel trims to 100% with the afc zeroed out by adjusting fuel press. If I just hammer the car it pulls great with little to no knock but if I feather it I usually gets some part th knock. Much less with the new AFPR though. . If I still had an EGR I most likely would not have as many problems with part th tunning but I think I can get a respectable tune without it. The car is already 200% better than when I bought it. I am jealous of all the people who run bigger injectors and diffrent mass with just an AFC with little to no problems. I might be temped to buy some race gas and run 25psi to se what this little evo will do .

 

[ucancallmedebo]

Well the other day I took the jewl out for about 2-3 hours or driving and adjusting base timing and fuel pressure along with afc. anthing more less than 38 psi causes a jump in knock off idle from abou 25-45% throttle. This is most likely due to fact the chip is tuned for this fuel pressure and my trims are near 100% with the afc zeroed out. I started with moving base timing back to +5 from -5. Super knock. 0 TDC less knock. And finaly I had to settle on -6-7 almost no knock. The car idles like crap though and runs like a dog from 1-3k rpms. With this setting I still get 18-19 advanced in the top of third and forth but almost zero knock. I have tried all variables of lower fuel pressure and adding fuel on the afc and it just dosent have the effect of lowereing timing curve. The car runs very fast like this, just the drivability suffers.I am hoping to get a chip made to help with this problem. It appears the timing just comes on to fast and induces knock with the higher base setting. I can advance timing to 0-5 and it runs decent but then the car gets really sensative from 3-4k. Basicaly I have to feather the car up to speed and then hammer it, or be cruising like 65 and drop 2 gear. Sometimes I get knock sometimes I dont. I think what is happening is the high timing associatied with light throttle situations brings knock into my heavy throttle driving. Once you pop you cant stop, or so it seems. Killing my timing is effectively holding the knock off long enough to get into heavy throttle and smooth sailing. Kind of a ishty fix but it works for now. A few more months of this and if I can't get it fixed with a new chip, I gonna have to get dsmlink or something. It looks like this was mostly my problem from the begining just much worse without the compensation. I feel as though something must be out of wack to be having this many problems with this issue but hey, If it ran perfect from the start I would not have learned much. .

 

[sweet97]

Is your chip from keydiver?

 

[ucancallmedebo]

yes. I emailed him but I am still waiting on response.