JDM 2G engine question

[SkaterNSX]

I lost my 4G63 two days ago due to a spun rod bearing but now I have 3 grand from a small personal loan and some money out of the bank. I am going to buy a JDM 2G 4G63t for $1650 shipped with low miles and drop it in. My question is do the JDM 2nd gen 4G63's have crankwalk problems as well? I wasn't sure if that was just a USDM problem or not. And my other question was do the JDM 2G 4G63's have higher HP and torque numbers? I did some research and didn't see anything about bigger numbers so I am assuming no, but if anyone knows or if there was a thread on this and I missed it could I be given the link? Any help or comments on this would be appreciated and thanks for your time!

P.S. All my extra money is going for upgrades

 

[v01dy]

My god the misinformation flows freely around here. There are several methods of actuating the butterflys without using the JDM ecu. If you have DSMLink, you can use its built-in nitrous controls to control in almost the exact same way the original ECU did. You can also use a Keydiver chip in the same way. Stop spreading this crap. Wasn't any fitment problems in my 2G. Granted, though, I took out my AC.

Well I never did mention JDM ECU did I? An appropriate ECU would be one that has been programmed to utilize the cyclone manifold. An socketed ECU is an example of an appropriate ECU. Why do people have to act like a smartass and be all antagonistic? This is the NEWB forum.

appropriate
adj 1: suitable for a particular person or place or condition etc; "a book not appropriate for children"; "a funeral conducted the appropriate solemnity"; "it seems that an apology is appropriate"

 

[Tevenor]

Well I never did mention JDM ECU did I? An appropriate ECU would be one that has been programmed to utilize the cyclone manifold. An socketed ECU is an example of an appropriate ECU. Why do people have to act like a smartass and be all antagonistic? This is the NEWB forum.

appropriate
adj 1: suitable for a particular person or place or condition etc; "a book not appropriate for children"; "a funeral conducted the appropriate solemnity"; "it seems that an apology is appropriate"

I run a DSMLink ECU that has no control over the Cyclone intake manifold in my GVR4 whatsoever. It's strickly all mechanically altered to work under boost load, not RPM and Vacuum as in the original "JDM" version. This would work just as well in a stock ECU car.

ECU mods are NOT required to get this thing to work and work well. However it does make it easier.

 

[keymaster]

Except that the manifold wasn't designed to work based on boost pressure. And I sure hope you don't have the actuator hooked up to a boost source. It's designed to be actuated based on load/RPM. Why not just use the Link nitrous controls?

 

[GVR4592]

Except that the manifold wasn't designed to work based on boost pressure. And I sure hope you don't have the actuator hooked up to a boost source. It's designed to be actuated based on load/RPM. Why not just use the Link nitrous controls?

Sometimes you can get better results by doing things a little differently. He's probably using a boost activated switch, instead of the JDM solenoid.

 

[Tevenor]

Except that the manifold wasn't designed to work based on boost pressure. And I sure hope you don't have the actuator hooked up to a boost source. It's designed to be actuated based on load/RPM. Why not just use the Link nitrous controls?

Wait! I can't? HOLY CRAP! What have I been doing to my car for the last 2 years!!!!!


Funny. Mine actuates under boost. Maybe it's hard core JDM or maybe, just maybe, it has a T25 wastegate actuator mounted holding the butterfly arm closed instead of open as in the stock vacuum actuated version and then when Boost hits, the actuator opens the arm just like a wastegate would. And then maybe just maybe I have a boost controller in line so I can adjust exactly what boost level the arms actuate at.

--End sarcasm--

Most US features are boost related. The JDM versions use a lot of vacuum resevoirs and such. The stock JDM version uses a combination of RPM and load to determine how much vacuum to release and therefore when to engage the butterflies. You can get a pretty good facimile by actuating the butterflies via a boost level instead as the goal is to use the longer runners to help spool and off boost and then open to allow max airflow under boost. Using an actuator allows you to adjust and tune the manifold to be most effective for your application and tuning regardless of what ECU or tuning device you use.

Don't get me wrong. I have DSMLink in both my cars. But a more robust solution isn't dependent on having this app to use it.

</sarcasm>

 

[keymaster]

I never said it COULDN'T be controlled by boost. I said it's not MEANT to be controlled via boost. The actuator (if it came on a JDM motor) is never meant to see boost, period. It is, in normal operation, held closed by vacuum, and opens the short runners at a set RPM (~4100 RPM). Using DSMLink will allow you to tune it to specific RPM points, and therefore helping your spoolup and low-end torque.

 

[Tevenor]

I never said it COULDN'T be controlled by boost. I said it's not MEANT to be controlled via boost. The actuator (if it came on a JDM motor) is never meant to see boost, period. It is, in normal operation, held closed by vacuum, and opens the short runners at a set RPM (~4100 RPM). Using DSMLink will allow you to tune it to specific RPM points, and therefore helping your spoolup and low-end torque.

You are right. The Actuator is never meant to see boost. Which is why you replace the actuator with an wastegate actuator from a T25. And yes, as I mentioned before, in normal operation it is held closed by vacuum, which we no longer have a source for. So instead of trying to reinvent the wheel and make it "JDM style", you alter it to work with what is pretty standard in the US versions: actuate with boost.

Tuning with RPM points is all well and dandy but in reality the goal is to help low end off boost torque and allow better air flow up top under boost. So what are the conditions of this? Be closed until boost hits and then open when boost is hi. Notice no mention of RPM's there? Why? Because load determines when boost hits and when the change over is needed. THe JDM version uses RPM to estimate load. I use boost to estimate load. In either case its an estimation of LOAD that matters.

So by tuning for a boost level ( right now I just use the stock actuator at 8-9psi ), I get the smaller runners for offboost and low boost/part throttle applications and when I want WOT the butterflies are fully opened by 10 psi.

Good enough for me. Could I get a bit more power out of it if I tuned by RPM and dicked with it for a few hours? Probably. Is it worth it to me? Nope. Not when you consider that if you change any part of the system ( bigger IC, different turbo, new IC pipes, etc ) you will have to retune the RPM levels.

 

[Mangold]

I never said it COULDN'T be controlled by boost. I said it's not MEANT to be controlled via boost. The actuator (if it came on a JDM motor) is never meant to see boost, period. It is, in normal operation, held closed by vacuum, and opens the short runners at a set RPM (~4100 RPM). Using DSMLink will allow you to tune it to specific RPM points, and therefore helping your spoolup and low-end torque.

While keymaster is a bit rough with some of his comments, I must say you do know quite a bit about this topic. To tell you the honest truth, we used a 95 ECU that was reprogrammed. Using the T25 wastegate actuator, as well, to hold the butterfly arm closed, but not sure.

I just cannot remeber for the life of me how they did it, I had no part in making the ECU talk to the motor, I was just a wrench monkey doing what I could to help. In any case things turned out well for us on that project.

My question for keymaster is how do you know all of this, by a lot of reading and working on your own car? Or possibly do you do this professionally?

 

[Mangold]

call around and just find a 2g motor set bro. You haven't mentioned anything about a NEED for a stronger motor. Buy a running 7 bolt for a couple of hundred bucks and call it a day. If you do want to go bigger then go ahead and get a 6bolt for a couple of hundred bucks and have it rebuilt and ready for drop in when you want to, not when you have to. Keep in mind you need more parts and work down for the 6-bolt to go into the 2g without issue.

You don't gain anything from a JDM motor and take it from a shop that has bought DOZENS and DOZENS of JDM motors (Nissan, Honda, Toyota, mitsu), 60k is usually BS. think more 100k and add to it that number the fact that most of them have been sitting for 3-10 years.

I would say this is words of wisdom here. When my motor went down I spent FOREVER and a ton of money getting my car running again because I was too impulsive and wanted to buy only the best. I wish I would have been smarter about how I approacehd the situation.

Prostreet, what do you think of 2g rebuids? Is it even worth the effort to do a basic rebuild of a 2g with all stock components? I had a friend with a 95 talon do that and his car ran pretty well for a while after that. I believe 13.9 on a 16g and stock injectors.

The 2g motor gets dogged pretty hard but in all honesty the 6bolt swap is not a cake walk really. I know for a fact I couldn't do it alone. (you can do anything if you are patient and read instruction manual after instruction manual usually, but realistically its not that easy). There is just so much invovled. That is why I plan to buy a 2g with the 6bolt swap done already.

Back to the OP, you said you had a spun rod bearing, is a 2g rebuild a possibility right now? Are the internals in good enough condition to warrant it? Maybey get your car running and then buy a 6 bolt motor with that extra money and start on the project of the swap?

 

[keymaster]

What's so difficult about the 6-bolt swap? I'm being serious. You trim a motor mount and wire in the CAS, not very hard. We did mine in 2 days. And no, I don't do this professionally, though I hope to soon. I spend a lot of time reading, and I just did the swap on my car 2 weeks ago.

 

[Mangold]

What's so difficult about the 6-bolt swap? I'm being serious. You trim a motor mount and wire in the CAS, not very hard. We did mine in 2 days. And no, I don't do this professionally, though I hope to soon. I spend a lot of time reading, and I just did the swap on my car 2 weeks ago.

There is a lot that can go wrong. Im very glad it was that easy for you. For others a lot of times it doesnt come together that easy it seems.

 

[Tevenor]

There is a lot that can go wrong. Im very glad it was that easy for you. For others a lot of times it doesnt come together that easy it seems.

It is easy. Most of the failures come from miswiring/misunderstanding what's going on. I agree with Keymaster on this point: there is plenty of literature and sites to help you along.

 

[keymaster]

Oh I know there's a lot that CAN go wrong. Hell, while pulling my 7-bolt we didn't notice a bracket digging into the A/C compressor. Didn't notice it until freon started spraying everywhere.

 

[nismo4life]

I don't know if this will help any, but I bought my 95 with a thrown rod so I purchased a JDM 6 bolt from a local member of one of the boards im on, It was in his son's car and the kid flipped it after driving it for a year, the car sat for over a year and when he went to fire it up, started on the first turnover. I'd tell you to stay away from ebay, try finding a jdm motor nearby and if not, for the same money it will cost you to buy a jdm motor, you can buy a 6 bolt shortblock, but 2g pistons, 1g big rods, get it all machined and for roughly 2 grand you have new 6 bolt longblock.

 

[JOEY A]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224551


Look at this, and search his posts it takes away all the myths of the manifold. Most people dont get it, and hook it up wrong.

 

[nismo4life]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224551


Look at this, and search his posts it takes away all the myths of the manifold. Most people dont get it, and hook it up wrong.

I feel like an Idiot. I read that tech article and I still don't get it, aside from flowing less then a 1g manifold, whats the difference/whats so special about the Cylcone?

 

[keymaster]

It has a dual-runner design. The longer runners are the only ones open at lower RPM's for great low-end torque and quicker spool. At a set RPM, usually 4100, the shorter runners open for high-end flow. I think the actual difference in flow is like 5 CFM.

 

[nismo4life]

It has a dual-runner design. The longer runners are the only ones open at lower RPM's for great low-end torque and quicker spool. At a set RPM, usually 4100, the shorter runners open for high-end flow. I think the actual difference in flow is like 5 CFM.

So If I use this on my car with an E316g, I will have better low end torque then with the 1g? Will it be that much of a difference?

 

[keymaster]

Well, since I still haven't hooked mine up, it will have to wait until I get to AZ on Friday, but from what I've been told, it is noticeable.