JDM 2G engine question

[SkaterNSX]

I lost my 4G63 two days ago due to a spun rod bearing but now I have 3 grand from a small personal loan and some money out of the bank. I am going to buy a JDM 2G 4G63t for $1650 shipped with low miles and drop it in. My question is do the JDM 2nd gen 4G63's have crankwalk problems as well? I wasn't sure if that was just a USDM problem or not. And my other question was do the JDM 2G 4G63's have higher HP and torque numbers? I did some research and didn't see anything about bigger numbers so I am assuming no, but if anyone knows or if there was a thread on this and I missed it could I be given the link? Any help or comments on this would be appreciated and thanks for your time!

P.S. All my extra money is going for upgrades

 

[GVR4592]

Why would you get a used engine with a ton of miles when you could get a rebuilt shortblock from a reputable vendor for less money?

 

[keymaster]

Get the JDM 6-bolt. And what are you talking about high miles, almost every JDM motor is going to have less than 60k miles on it. And it's a complete engine assembly not just a shortblock. This will help.

 

[Mangold]

If I am not mistaken (it has been almost 2 years since I worked on my DSM) all 2nd gen (knows as 7 bolt) motors are more prone to crank walk than the 1st gen (6 bolt)motors.

Crankwalk is often used as a DSM specific term that identifies the issue of the crank moving off its center position. All motors can suffer very similar issues, it is just much more prone to happen with 2g motors.

The 6 bolt is the way to go. They have stronger internalls and are much less prone to crank walk. Additionally the heads on a 1g flow much better than the 2g heads. Since they are still a "stock" motor (most 6 bolt 4g63 JDMs come from Galant VR-4s) they usually are better suited for daily driver vehicles.

One side note, I had a 2g DSM with 147,000 miles one it with no signs of crank walk. I did blow the motor though because I was running too lean. I replaced it with a 1g fully built race motor and had one problem after another from that point on.

Another DSM we put the stock 'cyclone' motor (cyclone is a common term for a JDM 6 bolt with the turbo and injectors included). Slapped on a 18g and 660cc injectors and had that car running low 13s the next weekend at the track... no major problems since.

Edits: I applogize, I forgot about the dual-runner intake that the cyclones have, thus making them 220HP instead of the USDM spec 210hp.

 

[keymaster]

Crankwalk is NOT a DSM specific term. The JDM 6-bolt motors are no stronger or weaker than the USDM 6-bolts. The word "cyclone" refers to the dual-runner intake manifolds on the JDM motors. If setup correctly, they give a good boost to low-end torque and daily driveability.

 

[Mangold]

Crankwalk is NOT a DSM specific term. The JDM 6-bolt motors are no stronger or weaker than the USDM 6-bolts. The word "cyclone" refers to the dual-runner intake manifolds on the JDM motors. If setup correctly, they give a good boost to low-end torque and daily driveability.

I applogize if I offended you there, I would like to point out though that I did start my entire post off with:
"If I am not mistaken"
It has been about 2 years since I have done anything with my last DSM (It was stolen from me Jan 2004, gutted and totalled).

In any case, I did not notice that anybody else had mentioned the fact that all motors can suffer from crankwalk and wanted to make it know to the OP that this can be the case. I also wanted to give my personal observation of buying a JDM 'cyclone' 6 bolt motor as that has worked out well for us in the past.

Keymaster, again I stand corrected and applogize for my errors.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

Crankwalk is NOT a DSM specific term, I don't know where you pulled that from... The JDM 6-bolt motors are no stronger or weaker than the USDM 6-bolts, stop spreading misinformation. The word "cyclone" refers to the dual-runner intake manifolds on the JDM motors. If setup correctly, they give a good boost to low-end torque and daily driveability.

You should learn to comprehend what others say before you blast on them. He stated that crankwalk is OFTEN USED as a dsm specific term. He never said that it was indeed a specific term, simply that it is most often referring to a dsm when it is used. He also never said that a JDM 6-bolt was stronger than a USDM 6-bolt. He simply stated that a 6-bolt is stronger than a 7-bolt, which is true, other than the pistons, but having stronger rods is going to get your farther than the stronger pistons. Mangold was correct in all that he said and did not spread any misinformation. You on the other hand jump on him like he is an idiot, when obviously you just do not know how to comprehend his post, only read it.n

 

[GVR4592]

Get the JDM 6-bolt. And what are you talking about high miles, almost every JDM motor is going to have less than 60k miles on it. And it's a complete engine assembly not just a shortblock. This will help.

I think you need to think before you post. How many jdm engines have you bought? My guess would be 0. How many jdm engines have I bought? 3. Would I do buy one just to get a replacement engine? Hell no. They never have 60k miles on them. They always have at least double that, and they are almost always in poor shape. The only reason I have bought them is to get the other parts that come with the jdm galant front clip.

In this case the car is going to be an Evo, so there aren't really any salveagable parts from the front clip. He could get a rebuilt shortblock and have his head rebuilt for under $1600, so it would be pointless to buy an engine with 120k+ miles on it.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

I think you need to think before you post. How many jdm engines have you bought? My guess would be 0. How many jdm engines have I bought? 3. Would I do buy one just to get a replacement engine? Hell no. They never have 60k miles on them. They always have at least double that, and they are almost always in poor shape. The only reason I have bought them is to get the other parts that come with the jdm galant front clip.

In this case the car is going to be an Evo, so there aren't really any salveagable parts from the front clip. He could get a rebuilt shortblock and have his head rebuilt for under $1600, so it would be pointless to buy an engine with 120k+ miles on it.

For $1700 I got the bottom end built with eagle rods and wiseco pistons, bored 20 over, head ported and polished and freshened up, arp head studs installed, and cometic head gasket and it all put together. I think I would definitely go with the rebuild instead. One the JDM engine you can go ahead and add water pump, timing components, possibly oil pump if you want to be on the safe side, and many other items, making the price well over 2k. You can slap it in like it is, but I would not recommend it. If I had the engine out of the car I would want to go ahead and do the maintenance. On your rod bearing, did it mess anything else up? If not you could get that thing fixed for pretty cheap!

 

[keymaster]

Actually I just bought a JDM motor. And where are you getting this info that they have such high miles??? One of the biggest reasons to get a JDM in the first place is that they have lower mileage, since cars aren't on the road very long in Japan.

 

[GVR4592]

Actually I just bought a JDM motor . And where are you getting this info that they have such high miles??? One of the biggest reasons to get a JDM in the first place is that they have lower mileage, since cars aren't on the road very long in Japan.

One of my very good friends is an importer. He has been to Japan twice to see how the whole system works. He said the first thing they do before they put the car in the shipping container is rollback the odometer. Then when the front clip gets to the U.S., the importer takes a look at the odometer and records the information, and passes it on to the customer.

The myth about the cars having lower mileage is just that, a myth. They aren't required to replate their engines every 60k miles like everybody says they are. They have like a 1000 point inspection ever 60k miles. The older the car the more expensive the inspection, if the car doesn't pass inspection they scrap it or send it over here.

Of the 3 Jdm engines I bought only 1 was useable, but like I said before I didn't buy them for just the engine.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

This is from Soko America that sells imported engines:
There is no such law "requiring" engine replacement at a certain mileage. That is a urban myth propagated by importers and car owners who simply don't know or understand the situation in Japan. The high taxes (annually assessed), insurance premiums, gas costs, and especially the safety inspection/registration (occurs biennial) combine to keep turnover of vehicles high.

For example, the Safety inspection for your typical car (say Camry/Accord type) can typically cost $2,000....each time! New vehicles have a 3 year grace period before they are required to submit for the Safety Inspection. In other words, for a 10 year old car, you will have already paid over $8,000, in just Safety Inspection fees! Don't forget, gas over in Japan is also typically four times the cost of here in the U.S. Mileage is kept low on the vehicles as EVERYONE (unless your fabulously rich and patient) uses alternative transportation to get around. Most folks use the trains for local and medium distance traveling/commuting.

Far distances are taken by airplane and local transportation done by either bicycle or bus. In that society, your car tends to be a status symbol more than anything else. I hope this sheds a little more light for you!

This is from ASAPMOTORS who also sells imported engines:

ASAP Motors would also like to set the record straight on a "Low Mileage motor," which refers to used JDM engines. Regardless of what you may have heard in the past, there is no set maximum mileage on used JDM engines. Used JDM engines for sale are sent to us from Japan once their owners decide to purchase new vehicles because of the stringent Shaken inspections. The idea that all JDM engines have to be retired after 40,000 miles is only a myth.

 

[Tevenor]

Any JDM engine is either a GVR4 engine or an EvoI thru III Engine. There is not such thing as a "2G JDM Eclipse" motor. And usually its far cheaper to just rebuild a used engine or swap in a good used block than buying a JDM engine. The first thing you will want to do on a JDM motor is replace the water pump and timing belts. SO right there you are wasting money from just doing a rebuild on a US block.

 

[Mangold]

I suppose you would need to be very careful in purchasing a JDM motor say online, in which you have never seen the motor.

We used to buy our motors from a reputable shop in San Antonio that did an inspection of the motors before they came in.

The one I helped a friend install was a "reconditioned" used JDM motor. We paid $2300 and it came with a 90 day warranty. The shop had pulled the heads to inspect the shape of the motor. The also installed a new gasket set to ensure that everything would last.

It came with a working 14b turbo, a little shaft play but in good working order. Water pump, oil pan and pump... pretty much everything you needed. For $200 they would have trown in the 1st gen transmision, but we elected to pass on that as the 2nd gens are suppose to have a better transmision.

If memory serves correctly a dual synchro in 2nd gear, as oposed to a single in the 1st gen. Feel free to correct me if I am mistaken on this.

Moral of the story: It is better to pay a little extra to buy a motor that you can 'put your hands on'.

 

[TheRealist]

rebuild?

 

[SkaterNSX]

Yes a rebuild looks tempting; where can I buy a good rebuild kit? Or where to buy a good shortblock? I am trying to figure out now where the best starting point would be for a fresh rebuilt engine. With the amount of money I will have I can just completely rebuild my engine and have a ton of money left over for upgrades. After the info I read in this thread I am unsure about buying a JDM engine. I had already installed some new parts in my engine before it went (I.E. new turbo, belts, plugs, and wires) and the downtime on my Talon isn't killing me because I have my Honda to drive around still. But before I make my final decision I still have to pull the engine and look at the extent of the damage, I was going to do it today but got stuck with other things. Thanks for all the help so far guys!

 

[Tx97GSX]

IMO the best thing to do is find a decent bare 6bolt block and crank. Get it machined, and buy forged rods and pistons and install everything yourself. You would have a built bottom end for less then a "JDM tight yo" motor. Since your budget is 3k, you will have plenty of money left over to build up your head as well. The key here is to do as much work yourself as possible. If your going to take it to a shop, forget about all the stuff I said because labor rate for all that crap is going to eat most of it up.

 

[keymaster]

And how many people have the tools or skills to fully assemble a shortblock and head?

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

Anyone that knows how to read and turn a wrench. All of the information on how to do it is available and all the tools are available to rent for FREE from autozone or other auto parts stores.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

I do think it would be within his budget though to buy pistons and rods himself and then take it and have it all put together at a machine shop. Especially if he went with stock size pistons where the cylinders would only need honed and stuff. If he wanted to build the head up also then he probably wouldn't have much left for other mods, but if he would just freshen it up he would be good to go. I think the best route is just a good ole Eagle/wiseco combo in there and take it to the machine shop and let them order the bearing and rebuild the bottom end and freshen up the head. Order some arp mains and arp head studs while you are at it and have them put those in. I think you will be very happy with that setup.

 

[mn95TSi]

probably can reuse the rods...new pistons is usually more than enough for a rebuild. saves a lot of money too...just make sure to get ARP rod bolts.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

call around and just find a 2g motor set bro. You haven't mentioned anything about a NEED for a stronger motor. Buy a running 7 bolt for a couple of hundred bucks and call it a day. If you do want to go bigger then go ahead and get a 6bolt for a couple of hundred bucks and have it rebuilt and ready for drop in when you want to, not when you have to. Keep in mind you need more parts and work down for the 6-bolt to go into the 2g without issue.

You don't gain anything from a JDM motor and take it from a shop that has bought DOZENS and DOZENS of JDM motors (Nissan, Honda, Toyota, mitsu), 60k is usually BS. think more 100k and add to it that number the fact that most of them have been sitting for 3-10 years.

 

[v01dy]

Edits: I applogize, I forgot about the dual-runner intake that the cyclones have, thus making them 220HP instead of the USDM spec 210hp.

I do believe you would need an appropriate ECU to make use of the cyclone manifold, otherwise they actually retard performance. Also, I've read about fitment problems for motors with cyclone manifolds. Forgot if it was 1G or 2G tho.

 

[keymaster]

I do believe you would need an appropriate ECU to make use of the cyclone manifold, otherwise they actually retard performance. Also, I've read about fitment problems for motors with cyclone manifolds. Forgot if it was 1G or 2G tho.

There are several methods of actuating the butterflys without using the JDM ecu. If you have DSMLink, you can use its built-in nitrous controls to control in almost the exact same way the original ECU did. You can also use a Keydiver chip in the same way. Wasn't any fitment problems in my 2G. Granted, though, I took out my AC.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

There are several methods of actuating the butterflys without using the JDM ecu. If you have DSMLink, you can use its built-in nitrous controls to control in almost the exact same way the original ECU did. You can also use a Keydiver chip in the same way. Wasn't any fitment problems in my 2G. Granted, though, I took out my AC.

Chillax my friend!

He didn't post any misinformation. The appropriate ECU is probably the cheapest way to get the job done for starters (although I'm sure they're very rare), considering most ECU's (used) are cheaper than DSMlink.

Scenario A:
A mostly-stock talon wants to run 12's.
Solutions as provided by helpful forums members may include tuning and an EvoIII 16G turbo.

Thats not misinformation just because you could do it with a 14b or a 50trim etc etc.
v01dy's post could be summarized as "don't forget you'll need a way to control the cyclone intake to make good use of it".

But to the original poster my suggestion is like some of the others:
Pick up a running 7bolt and if you desire start a 6bolt project for when you want to, not need to.