Is my TIMING BELT too loose? *PICTURES*

[Artago]

Hey all I have a simple question for you. But first a little bit of background. I had a motor installed by a local shop and they also swapped some cam gears and shafts for me. They set the timing belt and handed the car off to me. Now I've been having some problems with the car, mainly that it wont pass emissions control (too many HC's) and I got the random misfire code. Fuel economy sucks and a few other problems. I trusted the shop that did the work but after months of trouble shooting I decided to check out the timing belt just in case they f-ed something up. Here's what I found after removing the timing belt cover:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913214408098242"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaNtb3AcI/AAAAAAAAE7E/Qw-tLPK9FU8/s144/pics%20018.jpg" /></a><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913227293000146"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaOdb3AdI/AAAAAAAAE7M/tWNU0AmXyPo/s144/pics%20019.jpg" /></a><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913240177902050"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaPNb3AeI/AAAAAAAAE7U/RZibPW8YMIU/s144/pics%20020.jpg" /></a>

So my question is. Shouldn't the timing belt be way tighter than this? Or is this normal? (click on the pics for full view)

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Tom.

 

[thatblondechik]

That would be a BIIIG yessir! Take that back to the shop like ASAP or tighten it yourself because they seem to be complete dumbasses.

Sometimes after sitting over night your belt will look a little loose up top there, but it will tighten up after just cranking it. NEVER should you be able to lift it that much off the teeth or almost turn it over like you are in the middle picture.

 

[Artago]

That would be a BIIIG yessir! Take that back to the shop like ASAP or tighten it yourself because they seem to be complete dumbasses.

Sometimes after sitting over night your belt will look a little loose up top there, but it will tighten up after just cranking it. NEVER should you be able to lift it that much off the teeth or almost turn it over like you are in the middle picture.

I think I'll take it back to the shop and have them do it. I'll have the dumbasses check the timing as well.

One more question, can I have them retard the exhaust timing by one tooth to help eliminate valve overlap? I have BC 272's and it's killing my emissions (too mnay HC's).

Thanks,

Tom

 

[thatblondechik]

I think I'll take it back to the shop and have them do it. I'll have the dumbasses check the timing as well.

One more question, can I have them retard the exhaust timing by one tooth to help eliminate valve overlap? I have BC 272's and it's killing my emissions (too mnay HC's).

Thanks,

Tom

I'm honestly not too sure about all that...I have my exhaust retarded a degree but I have adjustable gears...and I don't believe that a degree is a whole tooth, I could be wrong tho. Might want to research that a bit before you do it.

And as far as emissions go, I have no idea. Luckily I live in a county where we have ZERO emission laws

 

[kottyking]

If those were the knobs that put your timing belt on there, do you really want them adjusting your cam gears??

 

[thatblondechik]

If those were the knobs that put your timing belt on there, do you really want them adjusting your cam gears??

That's kind of what I was thinking. But some people don't have many options. Be better if you could find another DSMer in your area to help you out.

 

[Artago]

That's kind of what I was thinking. But some people don't have many options. Be better if you could find another DSMer in your area to help you out.

Yeah that's true. I also did some research and it looks like 1 tooth is about 10 degrees. Which is too much right? Should I just get adj cam gears and if so which ones should I go with?

Tom

 

[thatblondechik]

Yeah that's true. I also did some research and it looks like 1 tooth is about 10 degrees. Which is too much right? Should I just get adj cam gears and if so which ones should I go with?

Tom

Yea, 10 degrees is a BIT much...to say the least.

As far as which gears...they're all gonna do exactly the same thing. But I have HKS on my car and they do the job.

 

[1992awdlaser]

One tooth off will make your car run like shit in most cases. Don't do it.

 

[Artago]

Yea, 10 degrees is a BIT much...to say the least.

As far as which gears...they're all gonna do exactly the same thing. But I have HKS on my car and they do the job.

What about Fidanza's? Are they ok?

Second question. If I have valve overlap that would cause low Vac (about 12 HG at idle) correct? So if I retarded the exhaust cam and advanced the intake cam, that should eliminate the valve overlap and help increase my vac, correct?

Tom

 

[Artago]

One tooth off will make your car run like shit in most cases. Don't do it.

Would my loose timing belt cause it run like shit too? IE: low vac, crappy idle, high HC count on emissions test...

 

[thatblondechik]

What about Fidanza's? Are they ok?

Second question. If I have valve overlap that would cause low Vac (about 12 HG at idle) correct? So if I retarded the exhaust cam and advanced the intake cam, that should eliminate the valve overlap and help increase my vac, correct?

Tom

Fidanza's are fine.

As far as the valve overlap, I can see in theory how that would work, but I don't see the need.

 

[thatblondechik]

Would my loose timing belt cause it run like shit too? IE: low vac, crappy idle, high HC count on emissions test...

Yessir. Timing off by even a tooth can cause your car to bi*** like no tomorrow.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

Just thought I would throw in, that this could be do too a bad tensioner, and not the Mechanics fault. My car is like this right now after my last build, and I did the work! I used the tensioner off of another engine I had, and I think it was bad. I drive it from time too time like this with no ill effect. (to lazy too fix it)

 

[Artago]

Oh! Well I know NOTHING about emissions. We don't have emission laws where I live ...so therefore I don't have the need to know. Lol

No worries. I just wanted to explain why I'm doing all this and what a b*tch it's been.

 

[JusMX141]

There are certain points in the engine's rotation that there will be less load on the timing belt between the two gears. It appears, though, that yours is still quite loose.

What you need to determine is if the tensioner is causing the belt to be loose, or if the belt is stretched enough that the between-the-cams tension is very loose. Either way, you'll probably be pulling the timing cover; and if the timing belt and components weren't replaced by the shop, now would be a good time to do so.

 

[jeremy19984g63]

I don't know a thing about emissions, but I would think that a new Catalytic Converter would help on hydrocarbon.

 

[Artago]

I don't know a thing about emissions, but I would think that a new Catalytic Converter would help on hydrocarbon.

I have a brand new 3" magnaflow and brand new denso O2 sensors.

 

[Artago]

There are certain points in the engine's rotation that there will be less load on the timing belt between the two gears. It appears, though, that yours is still quite loose.

What you need to determine is if the tensioner is causing the belt to be loose, or if the belt is stretched enough that the between-the-cams tension is very loose. Either way, you'll probably be pulling the timing cover; and if the timing belt and components weren't replaced by the shop, now would be a good time to do so.

Yeah I was thinking that as well. Where's a good place to buy all the required components like the tensioner and such?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[ivanr4g63]

Several things can cause a timing belt being loose. Considering your pics either the timing pulley is off or the auto tensioner is bad. The picture below shows which pulley I'm referring to which requires some adjusting before letting the auto tensioner put pressure onto the tensioner arm. Mechanically speaking should be a very easy fix, although it may require several hours of labor at a $hop or if you have the confidence and mechanical knowledge on the subject and proper tools it could be done in an evening.

In this link
Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)
you'll find how to do a timing belt installation, do a little reading there and you could figure out what is causing yours to be loose, or get you a pretty close idea.

Take care of it soon tho, procrastinate here and you could jump a tooth, in the meantime avoid high RPM driving.

 

[JusMX141]

Yeah I was thinking that as well. Where's a good place to buy all the required components like the tensioner and such?

Sometimes they pop up on eBay at a decent price:
eBay Motors: DSM NEW TIMING BELT KIT (item 180211931358 end time Feb-06-08 15:25:36 PST)

If you wanna see what a nightmare it is, then move to Vancouver Canada. You can't even fart here without violating some stupid emissions law.

Strange, seeing as you guys have more trees-per-square-mile (or km, in your honor) than anywhere in the US.

I'm sure our laws will be the same once Hillary gets elected .

 

[Artago]

Take care of it soon tho, procastinate here and you could jump a tooth, in the meantime avoid high RPM driving.

Avoiding driving wont be a problem because legally my car is not allowed on the road. It's not allowed on the road until I get insurance and it can't get insurance until I pass emissions.

 

[knochgoon24]

If they do the emissions test promptly after you get your car to the shop, take it for a spin and drive it hard to heat up the cat. A hotter cat does a better job at converting the HC in your emissions. But fix that timing belt first. Bent valves are not fun.

Oh, and in some US counties (like Allegheny County, PA) there are emission tests that you have to pass. In PA, it's on a county by county basis. I know they have it there because Pittsburgh had some serious smog problems. This was an attempt at helping curb that problem.

 

[JusMX141]

Oh, and in some US counties (like Allegheny County, PA) there are emission tests that you have to pass. In PA, it's on a county by county basis. I know they have it there because Pittsburgh had some serious smog problems. This was an attempt at helping curb that problem.

....even though your hometown of Saxonburg is as far away from Pittsburgh as my hometown of Greensburg is, you're still required to abide by Allegheny County's strict emission laws (I'm in Westmoreland County.) Westmoreland County's testing is far less strict than Allegheny's, yet I even have buddies in surrounding counties that have no emission testing at all.

I already knew this- I was simply restating it so others would understand that sometimes it doesn't matter how far away from a city you are in relation to your emission testing.

 

[funguy]

pm me when you pass air care, it would be nice if you could let me know the details. I'm finishing up my gt35r build, with bc 280's and I am going to have to pass through the Aircare BS.

Adding some methyl hydrate may work? So I've heard. Good luck.