Is my TIMING BELT too loose? *PICTURES*

[Artago]

Hey all I have a simple question for you. But first a little bit of background. I had a motor installed by a local shop and they also swapped some cam gears and shafts for me. They set the timing belt and handed the car off to me. Now I've been having some problems with the car, mainly that it wont pass emissions control (too many HC's) and I got the random misfire code. Fuel economy sucks and a few other problems. I trusted the shop that did the work but after months of trouble shooting I decided to check out the timing belt just in case they f-ed something up. Here's what I found after removing the timing belt cover:

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913214408098242"><img src="http://lh4.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaNtb3AcI/AAAAAAAAE7E/Qw-tLPK9FU8/s144/pics%20018.jpg" /></a><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913227293000146"><img src="http://lh3.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaOdb3AdI/AAAAAAAAE7M/tWNU0AmXyPo/s144/pics%20019.jpg" /></a><a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/tomas.beblar/Timing/photo#5162913240177902050"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/tomas.beblar/R6ZaPNb3AeI/AAAAAAAAE7U/RZibPW8YMIU/s144/pics%20020.jpg" /></a>

So my question is. Shouldn't the timing belt be way tighter than this? Or is this normal? (click on the pics for full view)

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Tom.

 

[stocker97tsi]

wow im suprised that has slipped a tooth or anything on you..lucky!..but i agree with what was said before and would try and find a fellow DSMer to help

 

[Calan]

What Ivan said... If they don't know DSM's, 20 to 1 says they didn't adjust the tensioner pulley (labeled Center Bolt), or set the tensioner preload correctly... and I wouldn't trust them to do it correctly the second time around either.

 

[Artago]

Ok so here's a bit of an update.

My mechanic says, that the tension is normal because the tensioner works via oil pressure and it tights up once you build up some oil pressure. He says that the reason it was loose because when I took the pictures the engine was not TDC and that would cause some slack between the Cam gears. Is this true or is it BS?

It seems like BS to me because the timing belt should not be that loose, EVER.

Some knowledge would be helpful here.

Thanks,

Tom.

PS: My motor was build less than 500 miles ago with a new tensioner.

Several things can cause a timing belt being loose. Considering your pics either the timing pulley is off or the auto tensioner is bad. The picture below shows which pulley I'm referring to which requires some adjusting before letting the auto tensioner put pressure onto the tensioner arm. Mechanically speaking should be a very easy fix, although it may require several hours of labor at a $hop or if you have the confidence and mechanical knowledge on the subject and proper tools it could be done in an evening.

In this link
Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)
you'll find how to do a timing belt installation, do a little reading there and you could figure out what is causing yours to be loose, or get you a pretty close idea.

Take care of it soon tho, procrastinate here and you could jump a tooth, in the meantime avoid high RPM driving.

Cool thanks,

But I have a 7-bolt. So here's the 2G version:
Timing Belt VFAQ

 

[tsibryan]

Ok so here's a bit of an update.

My mechanic says, that the tension is normal because the tensioner works via oil pressure and it tights up once you build up some oil pressure. He says that the reason it was loose because when I took the pictures the engine was not TDC and that would cause some slack between the Cam gears. Is this true or is it BS?

It seems like BS to me because the timing belt should not be that loose, EVER.

Definitely BS. The tensioner has fluid in it like a damper (I believe), but it is in no way involved with the oil pressure of the car. It is a completely independent part held to the block with two bolts:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

My guess is that they failed to tighten the tensioner pulley correctly.

 

[Splitpi]

@tsibryan

+1 in 1000000000% agreement. There is absolutely no correlation between oil pressure and tension on belt due to the timing belt tensioner or pulleys.

Also there should not be slack on the belt between the Cam gears if the belt is installed correctly. Frankly, I am amazed it hasn't jumped a tooth and your valves met your pistons. Call your mechanic an idiot. Demand he show you the oil line that runs to the timing belt tensioner and if not he owes you all the work for free because of his gross incompetence and lies. Take the refund and go to shop that is competent. I personally would not drive your car with a belt that loose.

 

[GVR4592]

1 tooth is 7 degrees, don't purposely set cam timing 1 tooth off, that's asking for trouble and will cause all of the symptoms you asked about.

The slack at the top of the gears is normal, your mechanic is correct. The tensioner can't overcome valve spring pressure to take out the slack when the engine isn't running. As long as the timing marks are lined up and belt tension is correct when checked in the proper location, you have nothing to worry about.

Also when the mechanic said that the tensioner operates on oil pressure he might have meant the hydrualic oil in the tensioner. He may not know exactly how it works, but it sounds like he's on the right track.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/pro...-loose-cam-sag-sagging-sprockets-gears-5.html

Are you taking it to just a regular mechanic or somebody that specializes in Dsm's?

 

[Artago]

1 tooth is 7 degrees, don't purposely set cam timing 1 tooth off, that's asking for trouble and will cause all of the symptoms you asked about.

The slack at the top of the gears is normal, your mechanic is correct. The tensioner can't overcome valve spring pressure to take out the slack when the engine isn't running. As long as the timing marks are lined up and belt tension is correct when checked in the proper location, you have nothing to worry about.

Also when the mechanic said that the tensioner operates on oil pressure he might have meant the hydrualic oil in the tensioner. He may not know exactly how it works, but it sounds like he's on the right track.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/pro...-loose-cam-sag-sagging-sprockets-gears-5.html

Are you taking it to just a regular mechanic or somebody that specializes in Dsm's?

He's a regular mechanic but the shop specializes in high performance cars.

Thanks for your reply. It's all clear now. As long as I have you here, I have one more question. I have a big V-Trim turbo running on a stock fuel system. I plan to upgrade later but I don't have the money for it right now. Unfortunately the turbo is boosting too much and the MBC and waste gate I have can't get it lower than 14 PSI. This is too much for my fuel system to handle and I can't turn it any lower. So the mechanic disconnected the waste gate control arm and basically turned off the turbo. Is there any way I can get the waste gate to open sooner so I can run less boost, like 7-9 psi? I just need a temporary fix to make it run less boost until I can get DSMlink and a fuel setup.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[GVR4592]

Have you tried bypassing the MBC and just running a line from a boost source to the wastegate? You might get slightly lower pressure. How do you know that 14 psi is too much? Are you getting knock or seeing high IDC's?

 

[Artago]

Have you tried bypassing the MBC and just running a line from a boost source to the wastegate? You might get slightly lower pressure. How do you know that 14 psi is too much? Are you getting knock or seeing high IDC's?

My mechanic took it for a drive and he said it was knocking. It also threw a random cylinder misfire code a while back but I don't if that's related. I have not tried running a line from the boost source to the waste gate yet. If I did that then I would boost whatever the spring pressure is, correct? In this case I do believe it's a 14 lb spring.

I get the car back tomorrow and I have pocketlogger now (just bought it ) so I'll log some data and see what's going on. In the mean time the car is at the shop with the waste gate wide open. When I have more info/data I'll post it and maybe, with your help, we can figure this out.

Thanks for the info,

Tom