Introducing myself and a few questions

[etstudley]

Hey everybody I'm new to this forum and i just bought a 91 Talon TSi. I bought the car through a friend i know, its been sitting for about 2 years and all the turbo set up, injectors, and a few other small things have been sold off.

The only reason i bought the car is because it comes with a fully built head. JMF race intake manifold, BC 272, titanium valve springs, and oversized valves along with a port/polish. I have been reading alot about the delta k272 regrinds (kelford profile) and was kind of curious if you guys thought i would be benificial with this big of a cam.

I plan on running either a hx35 or a hx40 depending on what i can get my hands on first. my power goal is definately 500, but I would love to see 550 . I definately want to go external wastegate but need suggestions on what exhaust manifold to get that will fit correctly.

I am either going to run meth injection or full e85 depending on peoples suggestions. that something i would like to figure out before i buy any injectors. i plan on running twin 255lph pumps in case i want more power in the future.

As for the block I am going to buy all ARP bolts (head, main, rod ect), as well as bore out the oil squirters.

I have alot of questions on whether I should run a MAF or run speed density. if i run the hx40 im pretty sure im gonna need to run a 4" maf? correct me if im wrong.

I am hoping to keep track of the build as it goes. and post up pictures.
ANY suggestions or criticism is appreciated, i am new to dsms and this is my first build.

TIA
Eric

 

[rellow88]

welcome to the site there is a lot of info on here i am also new to the dsm world hope you get yours running soon

 

[clipto]

Both hx40 and hx35 are amazing turbo's the hx40 is going to give you your 500hp+ number with little more ease then the hx35.I wouls just run speed density over the maf, speed density has real fine tuning on the car.Extremepsi.com sells bep housing for the hx turbo's and t3/t4 hotsides that will give the flow for 500+hp for the holset turbos check em out.Good luck on your power goal.Check out english racing sometime in camas washington they will hook you up with your dsm addiction.

 

[etstudley]

thanks guys.

Any recomendations on keeping my bc or going the kelford regrind? what do you guys recomend full e85 or meth injection?

 

[jpmxrider489]

Heres a list of manifold that will work with that.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/341834-manifolds-work-holset-hx35-hx40.html

I would keep the BC and not go with regrinds since you have them. You CAN use the stock holset housing but should get a divided manifold. If you keep the stock housing, you can use the wastegate thats on it but I would go external. You would have to find a mani and wastegate unless your using the BEP bolt on one. If you sticking with the BEP 70 ar housing or the stock housing, you would end up getting a custom exhaust.

Im also wondering about e85 or meth myself and not sure. Im also thinking about strocker or not. But Im leaning toward e85. I think it will be easier and cheaper.

 

[clipto]

Don't switch from the bc to regrind's would be a waste of money. The best cams out right now imo are the gsc s2.If you have access to E85 run it if not you really shouldn't waste your time with meth kit.

 

[etstudley]

Heres a list of manifold that will work with that.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/341834-manifolds-work-holset-hx35-hx40.html

I would keep the BC and not go with regrinds since you have them. You CAN use the stock holset housing but should get a divided manifold. If you keep the stock housing, you can use the wastegate thats on it but I would go external. You would have to find a mani and wastegate unless your using the BEP bolt on one. If you sticking with the BEP 70 ar housing or the stock housing, you would end up getting a custom exhaust.

Im also wondering about e85 or meth myself and not sure. Im also thinking about strocker or not. But Im leaning toward e85. I think it will be easier and cheaper.

I saw on here somewhere that the delta regrinds made like some crazy 30awhp over the bc's (pretty sure that was the number i saw). just wondering if its gonna be too much cam for my set up, i dont mind taking out the bc and trading for delta regrind k272

i definitly want to get a t3 manifold with an external wastegate. 38mm wastegate shoould be plenty big enough. i just havent been able to sit down and figure out what manifold im going to use... preferably cast if i can get away with it.

custom exhaust is what im planning because i have not a single piece of exhaust yet . as long as i can find someone to mandrel bend 3" exhaust and make a down pipe/dump tube i dont really care about the rest of the exhaust.

I'm hoping for someone to chime in thats used meth injection because i dont have any experience with it.. also the closest e85 is about 20 miles
Pretty sure e85 would be cheaper to set up at the get go but more expensive in the long run

 

[jpmxrider489]

Ive heard good and bad about meth. For people going for the dyno numbers I think its cheating. But I pretty sure im going e85. I think if you go meth and you have speed density it could ruin your sensors. Some fuel rail and injectors and filters dont like it as well. Seems more of a hassle than a gain.

 

[etstudley]

Ive heard good and bad about meth. For people going for the dyno numbers I think its cheating. But I pretty sure im going e85. I think if you go meth and you have speed density it could ruin your sensors. Some fuel rail and injectors and filters dont like it as well. Seems more of a hassle than a gain.

The plan is to go 1250cc injectors, dual 255lph pumps and new filter/lines if i go e85. This wont be my daily so i have the chance to do everything correctly, but dont wanna spend more then needed

 

[jpmxrider489]

If your cams are true BC 272/272, I have delta 272s if you want to trade. PM me if you want. A hx35 can get you to 500 but for 550 it could be hard. I would look into a hx40 with the bolt on housing. could get you there. You would need a external gate and you can get by with the punishment o2 and wastegate setup. Then for the manifold you can get the fp race. Problem solved.

You wont need dual pumps for 500. But for my goal of 600 I will be running dual pumps. I also have the stm pump to rail kit and is great. But if you run e85 you need a better filter and would have to change more often. Im talking about the actual filter in filter itself. If that makes sense.

 

[etstudley]

If your cams are true BC 272/272, I have delta 272s if you want to trade. PM me if you want. A hx35 can get you to 500 but for 550 it could be hard. I would look into a hx40 with the bolt on housing. could get you there. You would need a external gate and you can get by with the punishment o2 and wastegate setup. Then for the manifold you can get the fp race. Problem solved.

are they the kelford knock off profile? yea i would rather go hx40 if i can get my hands on one for a decent price. I've never seen the 02 housing wastegates until i came here i dont understand exactly how they work since they are after the turbo? maybe im being closed minded but it doesnt work in my brain. anyone have a diagram or a close up picture?

 

[clipto]

TIAL MVS 38MM WASTEGATE + RECIRCULATED O2 HOUSING PACKAGE FOR ECLIPSE/TALON - Punishment Racing

External wastegate are the best to control boost pressure. All wastegates are going to be after the turbo as it is the exhaust gases it lets out when reaching the boost limit you want so you don't over boost.

 

[etstudley]

TIAL MVS 38MM WASTEGATE + RECIRCULATED O2 HOUSING PACKAGE FOR ECLIPSE/TALON - Punishment Racing

External wastegate are the best to control boost pressure. All wastegates are going to be after the turbo as it is the exhaust gases it lets out when reaching the boost limit you want so you don't over boost.

Dont mean to be rude but all of the external wastegates ive seen have been on the exhaust manifold before the turbo.

In my mind putting the wastegate after the turbo will keep the turbo spinning full speed still producing boost. obviously im wrong or else no one would by these. just in my brain it doesnt work.

 

[jpmxrider489]

TIAL MVS 38MM WASTEGATE + RECIRCULATED O2 HOUSING PACKAGE FOR ECLIPSE/TALON - Punishment Racing

External wastegate are the best to control boost pressure. All wastegates are going to be after the turbo as it is the exhaust gases it lets out when reaching the boost limit you want so you don't over boost.

I think he is thinking since its on the manifold it is "before" and on the o2 is "after"

They a real and not knockoffs. If you get a wastegate get the real deal and not ebay. Like tial or PTE.

Most gates are off the manifold. I was going to buy the o2 setup myself but came across a better deal. Theres nothing really wrong about the o2 setup. If you want you can use your stock mani or fp mani and have a flanged welded on.

 

[clipto]

Dont mean to be rude but all of the external wastegates ive seen have been on the exhaust manifold before the turbo.

In my mind putting the wastegate after the turbo will keep the turbo spinning full speed still producing boost. obviously im wrong or else no one would by these. just in my brain it doesnt work.

Yes there are external wastegates on exhaust manifolds, I mainly was refering to the o2 ones and there placement.Also to note I am not a fan of running the external wastegate off the manifold but that's another story.Main goal is to bleed exhaust gases away from the turbo to control boost.So anywhere you can tap into the exhaust gases you can throw on a external wastegate.

 

[etstudley]

I think he is thinking since its on the manifold it is "before" and on the o2 is "after"

They a real and not knockoffs. If you get a wastegate get the real deal and not ebay. Like tial or PTE.

Most gates are off the manifold. I was going to buy the o2 setup myself but came across a better deal. Theres nothing really wrong about the o2 setup. If you want you can use your stock mani or fp mani and have a flanged welded on.

I was thinking about tapping a flange on the fp manifold actually, seems like the cheapest most effective way to go assuming it will fit the hx40. is the fp a divided t3? I dont think i would ever buy a ebay wastegate or bov. think the only ebay thing i would buy is a intercooler and piping. i know some people are gonna knock me down for even that but ive seen an ebay intercooler outperform an ets race intercooler

Yes there are external wastegates on exhaust manifolds, I mainly was refering to the o2 ones and there placement.Also to note I am not a fan of running the external wastegate off the manifold but that's another story.Main goal is to bleed exhaust gases away from the turbo to control boost.So anywhere you can tap into the exhaust gases you can throw on a external wastegate.

oh gotcha

what bad experiences do you have with an external gate on the manifold?

 

[Turbotsiawd]

If this is going to be your dd I would HIGHLY recommend getting sOme cheep car as a daily
I'd go with a cheep civic or accord something just to fall back on...your track car shouldent be your dd just sayin

 

[etstudley]

If this is going to be your dd I would HIGHLY recommend getting sOme cheep car as a daily
I'd go with a cheep civic or accord something just to fall back on...your track car shouldent be your dd just sayin

just bought a 91 toyota tercel with low mileage motor for $500 dollars on saturday

 

[jpmxrider489]

I was thinking about tapping a flange on the fp manifold actually, seems like the cheapest most effective way to go assuming it will fit the hx40. is the fp a divided t3? I dont think i would ever buy a ebay wastegate or bov. think the only ebay thing i would buy is a intercooler and piping. i know some people are gonna knock me down for even that but ive seen an ebay intercooler outperform an ets race intercooler


I wouldnt run a ebay intercooler. But anyway The fp mani is a great mani but not t3 its mhi flanged. I would reccomend staying mhi untill you completly understand everything. But long story short. The stock holset housing is divided t3. BEP sells a mhi flanged one and then a t3 one. The stock one is huge. Im getting the BEP t3. If you run a divieded mani I believe you need 2 wastegates. Plus you get what you pay for and manis . I paid 750 for my t3 mani. Heres a thread that will help you pull everything together. Read up.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html

 

[Turbotsiawd]

Lol I just had to sell my 96 Toyota corola with 220000 MILES the head was a little warped and could not get an exhaust manifold to seal and failed emission. It was a sad day honestly I paid 500 dollars and had it for like 2 1/2 years got me to work and school and even took it on a 600 mile trip to s.c. Car had no power tho it sucked going hills at but it was the best car. As long as you change the oil an don't beat it your grand kids will drive that car .

 

[clipto]

I was thinking about tapping a flange on the fp manifold actually, seems like the cheapest most effective way to go assuming it will fit the hx40. is the fp a divided t3? I dont think i would ever buy a ebay wastegate or bov. think the only ebay thing i would buy is a intercooler and piping. i know some people are gonna knock me down for even that but ive seen an ebay intercooler outperform an ets race intercooler



oh gotcha

what bad experiences do you have with an external gate on the manifold?

More less my personal opinion in the end as I have always ran external wastegates off the o2.Just dealing with crumpy company's "no names" as just had more issues with the manifolds I ran with external wastegates to not last and just seemed to feel better when running off the o2 housing for me.But that's more or less imo then anything.You will be fine with whatever one you wanna get and check some to reaserch into.

 

[etstudley]

I was thinking about tapping a flange on the fp manifold actually, seems like the cheapest most effective way to go assuming it will fit the hx40. is the fp a divided t3? I dont think i would ever buy a ebay wastegate or bov. think the only ebay thing i would buy is a intercooler and piping. i know some people are gonna knock me down for even that but ive seen an ebay intercooler outperform an ets race intercooler


I wouldnt run a ebay intercooler. But anyway The fp mani is a great mani but not t3 its mhi flanged. I would reccomend staying mhi untill you completly understand everything. But long story short. The stock holset housing is divided t3. BEP sells a mhi flanged one and then a t3 one. The stock one is huge. Im getting the BEP t3. If you run a divieded mani I believe you need 2 wastegates. Plus you get what you pay for and manis . I paid 750 for my t3 mani. Heres a thread that will help you pull everything together. Read up.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/362444-holset-turbos-faq.html

why would i want to buy an mhi one first?

Lol I just had to sell my 96 Toyota corola with 220000 MILES the head was a little warped and could not get an exhaust manifold to seal and failed emission. It was a sad day honestly I paid 500 dollars and had it for like 2 1/2 years got me to work and school and even took it on a 600 mile trip to s.c. Car had no power tho it sucked going hills at but it was the best car. As long as you change the oil an don't beat it your grand kids will drive that car .

haha nice!

yea this car is completely tore apart. plan on building everything all at once, trailering it to the tuner and then having a street beast

 

[clipto]

Nothing wrong with running ebay intercoolers.Not all ebay stuff is garbage.If I had the money to jump straight to a holset when I first started I would have, but don't get me wrong mhi turbo's are great.

 

[etstudley]

More less my personal opinion in the end as I have always ran external wastegates off the o2.Just dealing with crumpy company's "no names" as just had more issues with the manifolds I ran with external wastegates to not last and just seemed to feel better when running off the o2 housing for me.But that's more or less imo then anything.You will be fine with whatever one you wanna get and check some to reaserch into.

oh ok thanks for the opinion. i think i wanna run off the manifold mostly for easy access

 

[jpmxrider489]

More less my personal opinion in the end as I have always ran external wastegates off the o2.Just dealing with crumpy company's "no names" as just had more issues with the manifolds I ran with external wastegates to not last and just seemed to feel better when running off the o2 housing for me.But that's more or less imo then anything.You will be fine with whatever one you wanna get and check some to reaserch into.

Thats if you know how to weld and make custom stuff. Thats hard to do when im running a custom vband exhaust with my hx40.