Intro of my Talon Tsi and a small issue

[MRGarcia2489]

What's up every one,

Ive had a passion for the 1g Dsm since I was 16 and have owned 2 1g dsm's non turbo in the past before the age of 19. Sad to say one was totaled after being rear ended and my second one was a incomplete project that ended up being sold before I left to the Navy. A few years later my passion for these cars hit me again. After a pcs move from lemoore,ca to fallon,nevada iI ended up selling my 2012 civic Si( probably a dumb mistake) to begin my search for a 1g DSM turbo AWD project. I came across a 1991 eagle talon Tsi AWD from a fellow dsm enthusiast from dayton, nv. I was sold instantly. So since then ive been coming to site since May 2017 which is also when I bought my 91 talon Tsi. Ive read all the do's and dont's on this forum and learned a lot since then.

Now comes the fun part of my dsm dilemma....my pride and joy is, for some reason, having a weird idle issue along with this idle issue is a sound of which sounds similar to be electricity arcing around the injector area...I've already replaced my spark plug wires, my plugs are 2 month old NGK gapped correctly. Now the weird part is when I drive it I don't even have any issues at all. It boost just fine. Cruise control works perfectly at any setting. It's just idle that sounds and feels like it has big cams in it. Before this happened it was taken to a shop to have a valve cover gasket replaced, rack and pinion R&R, oil pan re sealed, oil filter housing gasket replaced along with oil casing gasket, and transfer case out put seal replaced. It was running beautifully before idle was perfect. I know I should take it back and maybe tell them they produced this and have them fix it but i don't know if it works that way. I'll have to call Monday and see if they can. If not I'll tackle it myself and maybe some guidance and trouble shooting from the community will help out. I'm close to selling this car because of all the money I've thrown at it and problem after problem keeps coming( project car problems I should've known). But I know since my passion is big for these vehicles I'll change my mind on selling it once it's running right and am trying not to give up easily. Thanks for hearing me out and any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[ThunderChild]

Welcome and sorry to hear about your troubles.

First, i would talk with whatever shop did the work as it sounds like your issues started after that.
Are you doing any of the work yourself or is it all through shops? I'd highly recommend getting familiar with your car and learning to do your work yourself.

Can you give a more detailed explanation of the issue?
Also are you able to verify that the tps is set, base timing is set correctly @ 5*, mechanical timing is correct, spark plug gap and that you do not have any boost leaks?

Those are good areas to start, good luck!

 

[pauleyman]

What's up every one,

Ive had a passion for the 1g Dsm since I was 16 and have owned 2 1g dsm's non turbo in the past before the age of 19. Sad to say one was totaled after being rear ended and my second one was a incomplete project that ended up being sold before I left to the Navy. A few years later my passion for these cars hit me again. After a pcs move from lemoore,ca to fallon,nevada iI ended up selling my 2012 civic Si( probably a dumb mistake) to begin my search for a 1g DSM turbo AWD project. I came across a 1991 eagle talon Tsi AWD from a fellow dsm enthusiast from dayton, nv. I was sold instantly. So since then ive been coming to site since May 2017 which is also when I bought my 91 talon Tsi. Ive read all the do's and dont's on this forum and learned a lot since then.

Now comes the fun part of my dsm dilemma....my pride and joy is, for some reason, having a weird idle issue along with this idle issue is a sound of which sounds similar to be electricity arcing around the injector area...I've already replaced my spark plug wires, my plugs are 2 month old NGK gapped correctly. Now the weird part is when I drive it I don't even have any issues at all. It boost just fine. Cruise control works perfectly at any setting. It's just idle that sounds and feels like it has big cams in it. Before this happened it was taken to a shop to have a valve cover gasket replaced, rack and pinion R&R, oil pan re sealed, oil filter housing gasket replaced along with oil casing gasket, and transfer case out put seal replaced. It was running beautifully before idle was perfect. I know I should take it back and maybe tell them they produced this and have them fix it but i don't know if it works that way. I'll have to call Monday and see if they can. If not I'll tackle it myself and maybe some guidance and trouble shooting from the community will help out. I'm close to selling this car because of all the money I've thrown at it and problem after problem keeps coming( project car problems I should've known). But I know since my passion is big for these vehicles I'll change my mind on selling it once it's running right and am trying not to give up easily. Thanks for hearing me out and any help is greatly appreciated.

Shop isn't always to blame. They fix something which reveals another problem. It's a 27 year old car. You mention all these problems but then say it drives fine. All I've heard from this post is you have an idle problem. What vacuum does it have? Did you set idle? Base timing? Mechanical timing? What have you done to find the problem? It's nearly impossible for us to help if we don't have the whole story. What rpm is idle? Does it bounce? Is idle position switch closed? Have you logged it? Throw us a bone and we can help.

 

[Vegas Smith]

Sounds like a possible bad isc driver. When the isc driver in the ecu goes bad, the isc motor on the throttle kind of buzzes like an insect and can lead to idle problems.

 

[MRGarcia2489]

Ok. I bought the car it was stock running flawless except the infamous idle surge. I fixed the idle surge I properly adjusted the biss and it was perfect. After that i took it to my local shop to have them do a full timing belt change, tensioner, water pump, etc. Returned from shop with no issues. Over the few months I've installed 3 mods. Manually boost controller, 3inch down pipe, and full 3” exhaust and had no issues. I recently replaced the rack and pinion and thats when things went down hill. After the rack and pinion I had surgery so I knew any issues after my surgery it would have to go to my local shop that did the timing belt job. Well when I took it to get aligned they mentioned it was leaking from the passenger side inner tie rod boot. So I took to my local shop to have them remove the reman. Rack and pinion and put another reman. Rack and pinion in while they were there I said can you guys re do oil pan, valve cover gasket, out put seal for transfer case, and oil filter housing gasket. Work was done I got the phone call saying" hey car is ready but now it sounds like arcing and rough idle but I drives fine." I went over picked it up heard what he was talking about but didn't want to spend any more money at a shop and trouble shoot it myself. IIdrove it home with no issues at all besides the idle that seems like a misfire but once accelerating it's not even present at all through out rpm range. I did notice at idle my vacuum pressure is at 10-7psi when it use to be 15-17 psi ( altitude here is 4,000ft above sea level) but in gear at decel it's normal (20-22psi) I replaced the spark wires yesterday and still the electric arcing sound is still present. I opened up the harness where fuel injectors are and didn't notice any breaks in the insulation. I'm stumped here. I havent checked base timing yet but will that affect this to produce an arcing sound? The car still boost just fine too nice and linear. The spark plugs are good they were replaced 2 months ago with NGK BPR6ES and gapped to .028
sound like it's grounding out some where but I can't tell. I can't see anything at night either that resembles arcing or electricity jumping around. I don't have dsmlink it's on the stock ecu. Car is set to 14psi on manual boost controller. The sound is like flickering electricity near the injectors or number 1 spark plug wire at the valve cover but can't really tell where it's from exactly. Like I said it drives awesome. But idles poorly. Idle is between 550-800. It does does not surge at all.

 

[MRGarcia2489]

Shop isn't always to blame. They fix something which reveals another problem. It's a 27 year old car. You mention all these problems but then say it drives fine. All I've heard from this post is you have an idle problem. What vacuum does it have? Did you set idle? Base timing? Mechanical timing? What have you done to find the problem? It's nearly impossible for us to help if we don't have the whole story. What rpm is idle? Does it bounce? Is idle position switch closed? Have you logged it? Throw us a bone and we can help.

Yes I agree with you. This is an old 27 year old car. In the end the shop isn't to blame on an old car. Now if it was newer then yeah. I listed what you asked in my other post.

 

[pauleyman]

Ok. I bought the car it was stock running flawless except the infamous idle surge. I fixed the idle surge I properly adjusted the biss and it was perfect. After that i took it to my local shop to have them do a full timing belt change, tensioner, water pump, etc. Returned from shop with no issues. Over the few months I've installed 3 mods. Manually boost controller, 3inch down pipe, and full 3” exhaust and had no issues. I recently replaced the rack and pinion and thats when things went down hill. After the rack and pinion I had surgery so I knew any issues after my surgery it would have to go to my local shop that did the timing belt job. Well when I took it to get aligned they mentioned it was leaking from the passenger side inner tie rod boot. So I took to my local shop to have them remove the reman. Rack and pinion and put another reman. Rack and pinion in while they were there I said can you guys re do oil pan, valve cover gasket, out put seal for transfer case, and oil filter housing gasket. Work was done I got the phone call saying" hey car is ready but now it sounds like arcing and rough idle but I drives fine." I went over picked it up heard what he was talking about but didn't want to spend any more money at a shop and trouble shoot it myself. IIdrove it home with no issues at all besides the idle that seems like a misfire but once accelerating it's not even present at all through out rpm range. I did notice at idle my vacuum pressure is at 10-7psi when it use to be 15-17 psi ( altitude here is 4,000ft above sea level) but in gear at decel it's normal (20-22psi) I replaced the spark wires yesterday and still the electric arcing sound is still present. I opened up the harness where fuel injectors are and didn't notice any breaks in the insulation. I'm stumped here. I havent checked base timing yet but will that affect this to produce an arcing sound? The car still boost just fine too nice and linear. The spark plugs are good they were replaced 2 months ago with NGK BPR6ES and gapped to .028
sound like it's grounding out some where but I can't tell. I can't see anything at night either that resembles arcing or electricity jumping around. I don't have dsmlink it's on the stock ecu. Car is set to 14psi on manual boost controller. The sound is like flickering electricity near the injectors or number 1 spark plug wire at the valve cover but can't really tell where it's from exactly. Like I said it drives awesome. But idles poorly. Idle is between 550-800. It does does not surge at all.

Much better. As posted above tjat dies sound like an isc. Unplug it and see if the noise goes away. Wont hurt anything to do this. Ohm check the isc.

 

[MRGarcia2489]

Ok so first start of today: when i started it I went under the hood and listened for the electric arcing sound ,it's gone!!!!!!! idle does sit higher now at 1000rpm with no idle surge but still misfire from what it sounds like, vacuum pressure is a little higher now @11-12psi, so I disconnected the isc sensor harness and it did nothing to the vehicles operation. Let it idle to normal operating temps. With idle still at 1000rpm And drove it for about 5-10 min getting into peak boost which is 13-14 psi and had no issues still. At stop signs it idles still at 1000rpm. Parked in garage while running and disconnected the isc again and still doing that didn't affect anything. The electric arcing sound is still gone so that's good just hope it doesn't come back. So now this issue has become intermittent. I replaced the isc last year in September with a O'Riley's one hoping it would fix my idle surge but it didn't thats when I properly adjusted the biss screw and that fixed my idle. With that being said I still have my original isc sensor which was probably never bad to begin with I'll swap it out and hope it's just the orileys isc sensor that went bad.

Update: swapped the old isc and arcing is back along with a drop in rpm idle 750-850. Swapped the other isc in and still the same thing.......maybe bad ecu?