Intercooler vs Cold air intake

[Araesk]

I'm curious what the difference in these are since when I look at pictures of other peoples builds the either have a intercooler or a air intake, and all the higher end ones are only intercoolers. Could someone explain to me the difference in these two and why you can only have one or the other? I have a rough idea but I don't know if its right.

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

You can have both. Cold air Intake is just routing the air filter outside the engine bay. Intercooler is a heat exchanger btwn the turbo outlet and the throttle Body.

 

[gsexxx]

You can have both. A fmic is used to cool intake temps thus making the air inside the system denser. A cai allows the filter to be lower to the ground and father away from the heat of the engine thus consuming colder air. The "cold air" from the cai is then compressed and exits out the discharge and then travels through the intercooler piping eventually meeting the intercooler which cools the air even more.

 

[BurrowZ]

I'm curious what the difference in these are since when I look at pictures of other peoples builds the either have a intercooler or a air intake, and all the higher end ones are only intercoolers. Could someone explain to me the difference in these two and why you can only have one or the other? I have a rough idea but I don't know if its right.

An intercooler is used in the same way a radiator is - to cool something. In this case, it's the air post-turbo. The intercooler is part of the actual intake system. It's between the turbo and intake manifold.

An intake pipe (cold air intake in your words) is the pipe before the turbo that guides the air into the turbo inlet.

If you're asking why you can't use a "cold air intake" (such as AEM) for a 420a and turbo it, it's because on naturally aspirated non-turbo cars the intake pipe is connected to the throttle body. On turbocharged cars, the intake pipe is connected to the turbo inlet.

Another little tidbit, a cold air intake is pulling air from outside the engine bay usually. This is something you don't see with many bolt-on intake kits for 2G turbo models. That is why I prefer to call it an intake pipe.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

These two things are fairly distinct from one another..

A naturally aspirated setup has no need for a charge cooler (intercooler).

Boosted setups, whether turbocharged or supercharged, use air-air or water-air heat exchangers to remove some of the heat resulting from compression of the air.

Both NA or Boosted (FI) systems can use "Cold Air" Intakes. It is common to find FI systems employing both.

For example, my car:

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I am using the passenger side head light as a "Cold Air" intake, more accurately a "Ram" intake (thats for another discussion) and I have a large ducted intercooler as well.

Here you can see the pipe connecting the "cold air intake" from the headlight to the turbocharger's compressor inlet:

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This is a shot of the intercooler with and without both the ducting and the face mask:

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So here's how they are used together on an FI appliaction:

Atmosphere -> Cold Air intake pipe -> Turbo Compressor -> Intercooler -> Engine

On an NA setup:

Atmosphere -> Cold Air intake pipe -> Engine

Hope that helps.

 

[fredom dsm]

Turbo charged aplications require an intercooler, weather air to air or water to air intercooler to lower the temperature of the amount of air that is being sucked in by the turbo. Colder air means more oxigen in the combustion chamber. Since the air is compressed it gets hot, with out the intercooler you would have hot air in the chamber this causing poor performance. That I know of, all turbocharged aplications require an intercooler. Naturally aspirated cars with a cold air intake will do just fine.

 

[Joethefallen23]

Turbo charged aplications require an intercooler, weather air to air or water to air intercooler to lower the temperature of the amount of air that is being sucked in by the turbo. Colder air means more oxigen in the combustion chamber. Since the air is compressed it gets hot, with out the intercooler you would have hot air in the chamber this causing poor performance. That I know of, all turbocharged applications require an intercooler. Naturally aspirated cars with a cold air intake will do just fine.

Slightly misleading. An intercooler isn't always required. In fact, many high end track cars making 1000+ ditch intercoolers for Meth injection and race gas. Many diesel trucks don't run intercoolers as well. Just food for thought.

It's efficient for street use sure, but a major hindrance in large turbo, high output situations.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Slightly misleading. An intercooler isn't required. In fact, many high end track cars making 1000+ ditch intercoolers for Meth injection and race gas. Many diesel trucks don't run intercoolers as well. Just food for thought.

It's efficient for street use sure, but a major hindrance in large turbo, high output situations.

That's not true..

Diesels still benefit from charge cooling.. they just don't rely on it as a function of how they operate..

"High end track cars" is extremely vague, and in the drag world not running an A/A or A/W are almost across the board running straight methanol or nitromethane, not meth injection.

Nearly any circuit/endurance FI car is running a charge cooler. The top tier LMP1 Audi endurance sports cars, diesels mind you, are running charge coolers.

There are situations you can get away without them or they are tough to package, but they are not a hindrance for the vast majority at any power level.

 

[Joethefallen23]

That's not true..

Diesels still benefit from charge cooling.. they just don't rely on it as a function of how they operate..

"High end track cars" is extremely vague, and in the drag world not running an A/A or A/W are almost across the board running straight methanol or nitromethane, not meth injection.

Nearly any circuit/endurance FI car is running a charge cooler. The top tier LMP1 Audi endurance sports cars, diesels mind you, are running charge coolers.

There are situations you can get away without them or they are tough to package, but they are not a hindrance for the vast majority at any power level.

I'm simply commenting on his use of "required." There are plenty of ways to cool charge air. That's all. I never said diesel couldn't benefit, however many are running without one. Perhaps I could have worded "major hindrance" differently, but I've personally seen many BBCs 1000+ HP run Q16 + meth injection with no cooler. They swear up and down about having a short charge pipe to the TB with no IC. I was originally referring to drag cars as well.

 

[Araesk]

Then with the blow off valve, that is always kept on the recirculating pipe that is from the intercooler to the engine bay, and has a corresponding pressure hose attached to it to tell it when to open and release the air?

 

[gsexxx]

The BOV is located on the intercooler pipe that connects to the tb elbow right before the tb. The tube connects from the BOV to the intake and recirculates the air that is blocked off from going into the intake manifold when the the tb plate closes. The BOV then opens, thus releasing air through the tube, back into the intake.

Here is a helpful link to understand how a turbocharged system works:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/391892-turbochargers-basics.html

 

[stunt2]

the hose attached to bov has same pressure in it as there is in intake system
when on vacuum - it creates vacuum on top of the bov helping it to open
when there is positive pressure in system - it pushes bov from top, helping it to not to get opened

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

I'm simply commenting on his use of "required." There are plenty of ways to cool charge air. That's all. I never said diesel couldn't benefit, however many are running without one. Perhaps I could have worded "major hindrance" differently, but I've personally seen many BBCs 1000+ HP run Q16 + meth injection with no cooler. They swear up and down about having a short charge pipe to the TB with no IC. I was originally referring to drag cars as well.

This is a fair point. There are hot pipe cars, these are usually running tremendous amounts of meth injection, upwards of 20GPH.

Check out some of the setups on YB for the ProMod guys, as an example. 500+ CI making more than 2000whp and for the most part only the alcohol cars are running without intercooling.

 

[fredom dsm]

Slightly misleading. An intercooler isn't always required. In fact, many high end track cars making 1000+ ditch intercoolers for Meth injection and race gas. Many diesel trucks don't run intercoolers as well. Just food for thought.

It's efficient for street use sure, but a major hindrance in large turbo, high output situations.

Thanks for the correction!!

 

[Araesk]

So if i added an air intake under the drivers side behind the apron, and attached that to the TB then would that get rid of the MAF since the filter would then be at the end of the air intake. Only what about the sensor then?

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*Apologies for sideways picutres

 

[Bud92gsx]

The maf is not connected to the TB.Your charge pipe goes to the tb. The air filter intake goes to the turbo.

You can add an intake pipe,it's bolt on.

 

[gsexxx]

No, you should really read through the link I posted above to get an understanding on how a turbo system works.

You could get a hard intake pipe that connects from the turbo inlet to the maf. That will slightly lower intake temps. I recommend getting a vrsf fmic as well.

 

[Araesk]

Yeah I'm going to read through it in a little bit I know there's a ridiculous amount for me to learn still. Thanks for linking it and answering.

 

[gsexxx]

No problem, glad to help . Just do a lot of research on questions you have about your car and things you don't fully understand. You will learn a lot during the process. Also, this is a great community with lots of people to help answer your questions and steer you in the right direction. Good luck!

 

[WES_393]

So if i added an air intake under the drivers side behind the apron, and attached that to the TB then would that get rid of the MAF since the filter would then be at the end of the air intake. Only what about the sensor then?

If you wanted to run an intake pipe out of the engine bay, you would just attach a pipe to the MAF adapter plate (what your filter is clamped to) and then attach the filter to the end. It's definitely easier said than done, especially since your stock side mount intercooler is right in the way. But I wouldn't relocate the MAF, and you can't run without it unless you have a tuning system that can run "Speed Density".

 

[PieEyedPiper]

I'd be more concerned about holes in my strut towers than trying to add a foot of intake piping.

 

[warren]

Yeah you need to worry about the rust before you end with too munch outide air

 

[gsexxx]

I'd be more concerned about holes in my strut towers than trying to add a foot of intake piping.

This. The rust will continue to spread throughout the strut tower if you neglect it. I know from experience. You can cut it out and then weld a different one in. Just go to a junk yard and cut out a passenger side strut tower that is in good shape/rust free.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

So my pics didn't help too much?

 

[KazooGS-T]

This. The rust will continue to spread throughout the strut tower if you neglect it. I know from experience. You can cut it out and then weld a different one in. Just go to a junk yard and cut out a passenger side strut tower that is in good shape/rust free.

Both of them are rusted through, not just the one side... That's rough.