Intake and headers.. Need advice from part owners

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

I am looking to upgrade the intake and headers since Im going very basic on the performance on this car around christmas time,
I want to do the minimum for now, then go crazy with more parts when Spring rolls around.
Right now I have a cat back exhaust and cai, both of which came with the car. Here is what I want to upgrade and cant seem to find the right info on any of them.
This is the info I have accumulated over the past 2 weeks
Intake manifold-
The venom one I heard is good but it costs 600 bucks.
The OBX is useless, needs bored out, and causes worse gas mileage?
The OBX one is the one I originally wanted to go with but not after reading up on it. Is there anyone who has any pros as to why this manifold is ok to use. Also, I was planning on matching the mani with a holley 57mm TB.
Headers-
Was told on our cars given the stock power band, 4-1 is the best bet and pacesetter has the perfect headers for our 420a's. True? Or does anyone have any better info for me?
If this IS the best bet, where can I get them at the cheapest price?

 

[RallyEclipse98]

I wouldn't say pacesetter headers are the best. There's a reason most call them pacesh1tter. Don't go with the cheap.

 

[TurboTJ]

Was told on our cars given the stock power band, 4-1 is the best bet and pacesetter has the perfect headers for our 420a's. True? Or does anyone have any better info for me?
If this IS the best bet, where can I get them at the cheapest price?

420A? What engine do you have? your profile says GST?

 

[InfiniteGSX]

From owning my accord, PaceSetter Headers are the cheap way... But were worth the price. Everyone wanted DC's since that was the only other company that made headers for my Accord, but people settled for PaceSetter.

RallyEclipse98, Have you dyno Tested the 4-1 Headers for a 420A? Cause You didn't mention it. I'd be hopeing to hear from people that have actually done the testing with the actual product.

TurboTJ, Read his signature.

------------------
99 Eclipse GST
98 Eclipse GS

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

Pacesetter is what I heard is better than ebay ones, if there is better recommendation for some 4-1s, fill me in...
TurboT3, I have a GS and a GST, the GST cant be modded until the warranty is up and insurance rechecks my car next year, so I can still qualify for mutual low risk. So I decided to play with the GS..

And Infinite, your right.. Im hoping to hear from people who own 4-1s, whether they are pacesetter or some better ones..

Im also very interested in hearing opinions on the intake manifold and tb setup.. That is what I would like to do within the next week or so.

 

[tegster1]

I bought my DC sports 4-2-1 header and exhaust from the classified section on 2gnt and saved A LOT of money. Check on here in the classifieds section also for parts people might be selling. Ebay is another option.

Most people will tell you to go with a 55mm tb or the jeep tb mod(60mm) and port out the stock intake manifold. That seems to be the best route to go unless you go with a custom setup which would require a lot more work. There are a few threads now if you want to check out what it involves with doing a custom intake/tb.

 

[Slo2gen]

I have the cheap ebay 4-1 header/downpipe. It wasn't a bad piece, its still on after 3 years, I didnt want to spend alot on a header because I planned on turboing since I got it. It did give me a gain in performance but the flange on the header that goes to the down pipe sucks ass. I would say pacesetter couldn't be any worse. Go with what ever you want to though. As far a TB, I have the modernperformance 60mm and I love it. Its kinda pricey but its awesome quality and looks. Def. a must have. Intake manifold I couldn't help you, I just ported my oem one.

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

Perfect responses, I couldnt have asked for better info tegster and slow2gen. I think im gonna go with a ported manifold then and just buy a 60mm tb and a better cai then the one that came with mine..

Now the question is, where can I get it ported?
I will search the classifieds right now for someone who may be selling a ported mani, if any of you know of someone selling that and a 60mm tb I'll buy it tonight haha.
When you have a machine shop port it out, do they know what they are doing or do you have to be very specific?
Last question, we have cleared up that cheap headers suck, so what would someone recommend for some 4-1s then and point me in the right direction to buy them(site url).

 

[BigRand]

Meagan racing header, DC sport 4-2-1, and pacesetter are going to be my reccomendations. I owned the DC sport ones and loved em, and I had a friend with the meagan racing header.

 

[tegster1]

What cai do you have now? You might as well just get a good filter like K&N or equivalent and save your money for the intake manifold and tb (unless your current pipe has a crack,hole, etc...) You could even take off the lower half of the intake piping to make a short ram if you have any sort of water problems there.

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

CAI leaks definitely, its a shitty one that the prev owner had on there.. I wanted to get a new tb and intake before replacin it.. its one of those universal kits from autozone... yea pretty dumb considering they sell cheaper ones made for our cars on ebay.. but whatever he was an old guy.

BigRand are the meagans 4-1 or 4-2-1? And someone tell me if its true that 4-1 is better than 4-2-1.. on our cars specifically.. I read that they are more noticable.. but Im open for any comments.
Btw.. I found a guy in the classifieds selling a semi polished and ported intake.. he hasnt responded yet though.

 

[InfiniteGSX]

My motor ripped the mount off my AEM CAI, so I just taped it up like no other ... no more leaking.

 

[chris712vt]

My motor ripped the mount off my AEM CAI, so I just taped it up like no other ... no more leaking.

, I used to have a CAI and the mount broke off of it. I currently have a short ram intake, the mount on that one is cracked like 3/4 of the way through haha. Oh well, doesn't bother me, it won't be needed anymore after next summer.

Original Poster:

I can give you a little bit of insight on the header, but I have not upgraded my TB or IM yet. About those though, IMO the Modern Performance 60mm TB is your best option, something like $275 on their website. And for the IM, I've heard the Venom is nice, but your stock one is plenty good. Anyway about the header - I used to have an eBay 4-1 header, the flanged type. It lasted 2 years, but since I wrapped it in header wrap without spraying it with sealant, water must have gotten trapped underneath and lead to rusting which eventually caused the welds on the collector to crack all the way through. I have now replaced it with a Pacesetter 4-2-1 from Modern Performance. I think it is of much higher quality than the first one. It sounds better and feels like I have slightly better power than before. My only complaint is that the paint was cheap and flaked off within the first couple hours of driving, but otherwise it is great. And cheap too.

Hope that is useful information to you.

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

Chris,
Yea its exactly what I am looking for, so you had a 4-1, and the 4-2-1s seemed to give you more power? Sounds like my info was backwards.. hmm thats good to know though.. I want to get the most out of my upgrades. I dont neccessarily care about price, but I do want something for a reasonable price.. I agree with you on the 60mm TB but I can get the Holley one from ebay that is 57mm for 150ish.. I wouldnt mind having the 60 though.. its still in the decision process.. Hopefully this guy messages me about the ported intake though.

And btw, I know most of these upgrades arent going to give me much more hp or noticable power, that is why I am looking for opinions and experiences. Im not some kid looking to race around town with my cai and muffler.. just wanted to clarify that haha.

 

[chris712vt]

From everything I've read before, the 4-1 style is more beneficial in the higher rpm range as far as power goes, and the 4-2-1 is supposed to provide stronger midrange power. Maybe it's because I don't drive my car around at 5-7k rpm very often, but from my experience with both I would definitely say the 4-2-1 feels stronger in general, and it sounds much better to me.

BTW, I checked the prices from Modern Performance just in case you are interested. The Pacesetter header is $180 (my 4-1 off eBay a couple years ago was like 150ish), and the 60mm TB is $220, not $275 like I stated above.

And yes you are correct, these mods will help, especially all of them combined (I/H/E/TB/IM), but in reality I still don't think you're going to get any major gains. I've always been curious to know for sure by seeing dyno proof of a stock 420A compared to one with just the common bolt ons.

 

[bullettdsm]

From everything I've read before, the 4-1 style is more beneficial in the higher rpm range as far as power goes, and the 4-2-1 is supposed to provide stronger midrange power.
.

There you go . The 4-2-1 is a bit more street friendly for those that don't like to rev her up so much. The power is more noticeable BECAUSE it's in the mid range. And I'm all for a high flow cat to allow the air to flow.

MB

 

[all_motor_mike]

4-2-1 = good midrange and decent top end
4-1 = strong top end power and higher peak numbers

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

Ok so far then
Headers-
Getting 4-2-1 headers
-still unsure on brand, but leaning towards pacesetter
Intake
Getting a bored stock intake manifold
-have an offer from a member to bore mine, waiting on response
-replacing crappy do it yourself piping CAI I have now
TB
tb depends, I have 2 questions on this.
Should I go with the biggest tb possible (60+)?
or should I get one that matches the stock bored one?
I am leaning toward the 60+ since I havent heard one complaint about it.. but would like to know if it would really make a difference compared to an intake port matched one.

 

[Locke]

A TB who's bore is larger than the plenum opening will be twitchy, and offer absolutely no benefit in power over a TB who's bore matches your plenum opening. You could go as large as you'd like, providing the plenum's opening is appropriately sized, with the only real negative side-effect being a twitchy throttle.

 

[all_motor_mike]

ide say get the mpx 60mm t-body and have the manifold opening opened up to match the 60mm along with race porting (no need for polishing) on the manifold.


mike

 

[tegster1]

The best choice would be to get the opening to the manifold and TB the same size so the air flows straight through. Why get something excessively big if youre just going to hit a wall to stop the excessive air which would just equivalent to a smaller size TB. There is such a thing as toooo big with our cars. If you want to go 60mm look up the Jeep TB mod. It takes a couple modifications but can be done for a few bucks compared to what you might buy at a store, shop. You would never need anything bigger than this unless you go with an all out racecar. There is a formula that says 55mm is the best flowing TB size for us but take that as you want. That is up to you.

Intake- go with a short ram from ebay and put on a K&N filter or something similar. Works just as well as any other aftermarket intake and for 1/5 the price. If you want to go with an AEM type by all means go for it.


Yea, what they said ^^^^

 

[IIv SHaDoW vII]

That is what I figured, ok so now .. All motor mike, I responded to you in pms, you're the guy I was waitin on for the response haha. Maybe I'll buy the 60mm tb and have you port match the intake to it. Thanks for all the info everyone, I think I have a much better idea as to how to upgrade now! Thread is pretty much done, I will post pics when I get all this stuff together, BTW the aem intake was just a thought, I already found one on ebay that I bought, its just some off the wall name but it looks fine for a short ram.. Or I could always go rambo style and run a cone filter right off the throttle body.. woot, haha. Anyways, thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

 

[all_motor_mike]

That is what I figured, ok so now .. All motor mike, I responded to you in pms, you're the guy I was waitin on for the response haha. Maybe I'll buy the 60mm tb and have you port match the intake to it. Thanks for all the info everyone, I think I have a much better idea as to how to upgrade now! Thread is pretty much done, I will post pics when I get all this stuff together, BTW the aem intake was just a thought, I already found one on ebay that I bought, its just some off the wall name but it looks fine for a short ram.. Or I could always go rambo style and run a cone filter right off the throttle body.. woot, haha. Anyways, thanks everyone, I really appreciate it.

PM replied to sir.

 

[Slippi84]

I would look online for a intake that's designed after the AEM v2 intake that seems to be the new thing the ebay companies are copying and with good reason. AEM has kinda put a kink in the whole a pipe is a pipe idea with a dual diamter intake pipe that always keeps the pipe charged or so that's the idea. Header wise you will not find any ebay companies doing a true 4-2-1 header I think I may have seen one and it's like 150 for the header alone while you can get a 4-1 shipped for like under $100. When you get a header I would suggest looking for the ones that hook up with a traditional flange with the two bolt wholes opposit each other instead of that overlapping setup with the bolts that hold it together. Here is what you don't want and the second pic is what you do want.

 

[Locke]

AEM has kinda put a kink in the whole a pipe is a pipe idea with a dual diamter intake pipe that always keeps the pipe charged or so that's the idea

I don't buy into their dual chamber voodoo. I have never heard anything outside of their marketing propaganda that would compel me to consider this "technology".

I still stand by my "a pipe is a pipe" theory, not understanding how a pipe in a pipe can out perform the former.