Installing timing belt

[Lucas03es]

So im installing my gates blue timing belt on my freshly rebuilt motor. I dont know if it matters, but it has 1mm oversized valves and bc 280 cams. I did the timing belt according to vfaq, but when I removed the tensioner pin and rotated the motor 6 times over, when I realigned the cam gears, the crank sprocket doesn't line up to the timing mark on the block. Its 1 maybe 2 teeth past the mark. I just dont know if this is supposed to be true TDC? I have the Jay racing tool kit as well. Thanks!

 

[Tyeler18]

Redo your timing. Make sure you have 39 teeth between the 9 o-clock timing mark on the exhaust cam and 3 o'clock mark on the intake cam timing mark. Then spin it again.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Well i would say redo it unitl it lines up.

 

[DSMpowerhouse]

Def not something you want to gamble on (ask me how I know ). Take your time, double, hell triple check your marks, and make sure they all line up.

 

[Lucas03es]

Sweet I backed the crank off a tooth, redid it and rotated six times. Has better tension than before and spins easier. Cam marks line up on the head surface and crank notch lines up. Waiting for the tensioner to set now. Thanks!!

 

[knappa]

Hey I have been searching this site and have had some trouble finding the vfaq on the timing belt install...could you help me out or point me in the rite direction..thanks

 

[Jon91TSi]

Hey I have been searching this site and have had some trouble finding the vfaq on the timing belt install...could you help me out or point me in the rite direction..thanks

Timing Belt VFAQ

 

[quiksilver20004]

AS far as the timing mark on the crank goes i never use it. I am a certified technician and have been building motors for years and have seena quite a few where the marks dont line up correctly. The best way to set TDC is to do it by eye.i either use a wooden dowel painted a bright color or a couple straws connected together. Then lower it down through the spark plug hole and let it rest on the piston of your #1 cylinder. now you can either put a piece of paper with lines on it or if you have a decent point of reference then rotate the crank till the tool reaches its highest point and take it a hair past. If it starts to fall then back it up a hair. This will make sure your piston is perfectly TDC.

Also a helpful hint to make belt installation easier, get two zip ties that is long enough to loop through the gear right under the teeth. Lay the timing belt over the gears, take your 2 18mm wrenches and set the cams to TDC. Then while holding the wrenches with one hand use the other to ziptie the belt to the cam gear usually about 90 degrees from TDC so that when you let the wrenches go the ties hold the belt in the gears teeth and you dont have to worry about them changing time

 

[bryanwheat]

AS far as the timing mark on the crank goes i never use it. I am a certified technician and have been building motors for years and have seena quite a few where the marks dont line up correctly. The best way to set TDC is to do it by eye.i either use a wooden dowel painted a bright color or a couple straws connected together. Then lower it down through the spark plug hole and let it rest on the piston of your #1 cylinder. now you can either put a piece of paper with lines on it or if you have a decent point of reference then rotate the crank till the tool reaches its highest point and take it a hair past. If it starts to fall then back it up a hair. This will make sure your piston is perfectly TDC.

Also a helpful hint to make belt installation easier, get two zip ties that is long enough to loop through the gear right under the teeth. Lay the timing belt over the gears, take your 2 18mm wrenches and set the cams to TDC. Then while holding the wrenches with one hand use the other to ziptie the belt to the cam gear usually about 90 degrees from TDC so that when you let the wrenches go the ties hold the belt in the gears teeth and you dont have to worry about them changing time

You mean 2 17mm wrenches,

 

[Alan11]

I Redid my timing three days ago and i cant recall if my Dowel pins on the cam gears where facing up or down.

these http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/Tbelt5.jpg

what can happen if they were facing down.??

The car is running now.
I might just redo the timing just for the peace of mind.

HOLY THREAD REVIVAL

 

[Jon91TSi]

I Redid my timing three days ago and i cant recall if my Dowel pins on the cam gears where facing up or down.

these http://www.vfaq.com/proj-pics/Tbelt/Tbelt5.jpg

what can happen if they were facing down.??

The car is running now.
I might just redo the timing just for the peace of mind.

HOLY THREAD REVIVAL

Bad news if the dowels were down... Lets just leave it at that.... Also, the timing marks wouldn't line up on the cam gears (180* out) , so you SHOULD instantly know you're doing something wrong.

 

[Alan11]

Bad news if the dowels were down... Lets just leave it at that....

But its running fine. already 50 miles in the new belt.

 

[Jon91TSi]

But its running fine. already 50 miles in the new belt.

Read the second half I just posted, you would have to know something is wrong because the horizontal timing marks on the cam gears would be 180* out and wouldn't line up with eachother. If the car is running ok, you're fine.

 

[Alan11]

Read the second half I just posted, you would have to know something is wrong because the horizontal timing marks on the cam gears would be 180* out and wouldn't line up with eachother. If the car is running ok, you're fine.

ok thanks a lot. they did lined up 180* out i remember for sure. And i turned the engine over by hand ten times i counted them, and everything lined up back to its place perfectly. I was reading the VFAQ and the dowel pins catch my attention i was freaking out. If they were to be wrong then i would have some bent valves already.

Thanks again.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Facing down? It'll run... just not.. right..

 

[Jon91TSi]

ok thanks a lot. they did lined up 180* out i remember for sure. And i turned the engine over by hand ten times i counted them, and everything lined up back to its place perfectly. I was reading the VFAQ and the dowel pins catch my attention i was freaking out. If they were to be wrong then i would have some bent valves already.

Thanks again.

No problem. If your dowel pins were at 6 O'clock your timing marks would have looked like (- ) ( -) instead of ( -)(- ). It's a dead giveaway.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

No problem. If your dowel pins were at 6 O'clock your timing marks would have looked like (- ) ( -) instead of ( -)(- ). It's a dead giveaway.

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Huh.. odd.... looks kind of like each cam gear has two timing notches....

Short and simple - We make sure the dowel guide hole is pointed up (Up = 12:00 position looking at the driver side of the engine while facing the engine bay on the driver side of the car looking from the side, not the front) - (PS - AKA in the position the gear is in above) for a reason. That reason being - This is the CORRECT spot to set your mechanical timing. there is no "Cams are timed 180* out. It'll work just perfect! " median. Remove the belt - Do it right.

Those suggesting it will be fine - PM me when your engine detonates. I'd like to send you a .gif of me not giving a shit.

 

[Alan11]

You guys make want to put everything apart again.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

You guys make want to put everything apart again.

You will -not- bend valves by them being 180* out, however, your mechanical timing is not correct. You need to rotate several times and then line up the crank mark. If the cams are lining up with the cam dowels down and the crank in time but not UP and the crank in time, pull the belt and start over.

Simple as that. No way around it. No substitutions. Do not pass go. Do not create boost.

 

[Jon91TSi]

You will -not- bend valves by them being 180* out, however, your mechanical timing is not correct. You need to rotate several times and then line up the crank mark. If the cams are lining up with the cam dowels down and the crank in time but not UP and the crank in time, pull the belt and start over.

Simple as that. No way around it. No substitutions. Do not pass go. Do not create boost.

Also note, you would almost never get the timing on the cam side correct either, so you would more than likely end up with a bent valve or two. You would need a foot long straight edge to check that the cams are in phase. Hence the bad news comment. Here's your sign. I was also remiss in thinking that perhaps he had a dab of white paint on the correct tang on the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock of the cam gears as I'm used to doing with all the cars I work on.

 

[BogusSVO]

With the dowels down you would 180* out, you would have the cams on the exhaust stroke, not compression, on both these strokes the rod/piston is at TDC.

Also every srock cam gear I have looked at has marks at 3 and 9, so the gears can be used for either intake or exhaust, with the exception of the funky 2g intake cam gear with the reluctor wheel built on it

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Unless he's off 2+ teeth, there will be no bent valves. Trust me - I've done this a couple of times. I didn't exactly accumulate three little green chicklets from giving incorrect advice. the only difficulty in doing a timing belt job is getting the correct tension on the tension pulley so as to not pull the exhaust cam out 1/2 a tooth when you slip the belt over the tensioner pulley.

People have their ways of lining things up, however, you can do them in several different ways. I personally pull the valve cover up and use a flat narrow piece of steel (A nail file for this instance) to assure that the CAM timing marks line up with one another directly in line with the plane of the head itself, where it should be. After a few dozen timing jobs, I've never had an issue besides an instance where quite a bit of material had been removed from the head and block and reduced the distance between the crank and the cams.

But regressing - Again - Pull the belt, line things up, CAM dowels at 12:00, slap it together - Be happy.

with the exception of the funky 2g intake cam gear with the reluctor wheel built on it

What's the need for that anyhow? I've never looked into that.

 

[Alan11]

Im glad its not that hard of a job.

 

[Jon91TSi]

Unless he's off 2+ teeth, there will be no bent valves. Trust me - I've done this a couple of times. I didn't exactly accumulate three little green chicklets from giving incorrect advice. the only difficulty in doing a timing belt job is getting the correct tension on the tension pulley so as to not pull the exhaust cam out 1/2 a tooth when you slip the belt over the tensioner pulley.

People have their ways of lining things up, however, you can do them in several different ways. I personally pull the valve cover up and use a flat narrow piece of steel (A nail file for this instance) to assure that the CAM timing marks line up with one another directly in line with the plane of the head itself, where it should be. After a few dozen timing jobs, I've never had an issue besides an instance where quite a bit of material had been removed from the head and block and reduced the distance between the crank and the cams.

But regressing - Again - Pull the belt, line things up, CAM dowels at 12:00, slap it together - Be happy.

As a novice doing it for the first time and being 180* out, it would be VERY easy to be off two or MORE teeth, hell I know of people that have been off two teeth doing it the right way, search and you'll see. The chicklets mean nothing, just because someone doesn't care to share their knowledge on a regular basis doesn't mean they don't possess it. If I spent all day on this site and handed out information to those who didn't care to search, or maybe even those who did I could easily rack up reputation points, but in the grand scheme of things I could really care less. I've been doing the DSM thing since 2002, and I know my stuff. That's all that matters. It's not about an ego for me. And for the record, there is only one way to do a timing job. The correct way.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

As a novice doing it for the first time and being 180* out, it would be VERY easy to be off two or MORE teeth, hell I know of people that have been off two teeth doing it the right way, search and you'll see. The chicklets mean nothing, just because someone doesn't care to share their knowledge on a regular basis doesn't mean they don't possess it. If I spent all day on this site and handed out information to those who didn't care to search, or maybe even those who did I could easily rack up reputation points, but in the grand scheme of things I could really care less. I've been doing the DSM thing since 2002, and I know my stuff. That's all that matters. It's not about an ego for me. And for the record, there is only one way to do a timing job. The correct way.

Roger - I'll make note - Cam gears only have 1 timing mark each.