in need of help! please!!!!

[tony070804]

1995 gsx 5 speed.

Ok so I've replaced starter relay, neutral safety switch, mfi relay, plugs, ignition switch, battery, and starter!

Here's what's going on, if I try to start the car nothing happens except starter relay clicks. If I unplug relay and jumper the plug, the car will turn over and plugs will spark but that's it! Will not crank at all! I'm completely out of ideas and need some real help!

Can somebody please tell me which pins to cross to bypass the mfi relay? I really need to know if the the fuel pump works! Also can somebody please tell me what else it could be? Seriously! The only thing I can think of is the ecu is bad?


PLEASE HELP!!!!!

 

[bryanwheat]

Sounds like a short in a wire from the ignition switch to relay. The ecu is fine, the car will crank all day long with no ecu installed. You need to download this http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/fre...stions/324090-download-2g-service-manual.html and check the starting system schematic and get yourself a 4 dollar multimeter from harbor freight.

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds like you're getting tired (or $ poor) of being a "let's replace things until it works" guy and now want to do actual troubleshooting for the real problem. First of all it must be cranking if it is turning over and producing spark (you said it's not cranking at all).

On a MT (AT is different) the starter relay clicks (activates) only to DISABLE the starter. It activates if either theft alarm tells it to or if clutch not pressed switch is on. Unplug your theft alarm (after market?) completely and see what happens - that's probably it.

The MPI relay must be working if you're getting spark. The fuel pump (FP) relay is in the same unit as the MPI on a 95-96. The ECU must see tach pulses before it will turn the FP relay on (safety feature in case of crash). But you can test the FP relay by forcing it on. With relay in place and key on, ground the white-red (pin 5) wire (which is what the ECU does). If it comes on along with the FP your problem is elsewhere - power transistor tach output, ECU, or wiring. If relay clicks on but FP doesn't run, you can force the FP on (for testing it to see if it's the problem) by jumping the black-white (pin 7) to the black-blue (pin 1) with the key on (don't have to have relay plugged in for this one). If FP now runs you have a bad relay (clicks but not making contact).

 

[schroder]

Something basic to check, but hows that ground wire looking on the starter? Power wire? Also, I had this issue on a 1g a while back and the clutch sensor? was crap. I unplugged the switch that plugs into the sensor attached to the clutch and it fired right up. Good luck man.

 

[tony070804]

clutch switch is unplugged and it does the same thing.

if I jumper the starter relay the car will turnover, and there is spark, but the car will not crank!!!! no fuel!

I tried to jumper the black-white wire #7 to the black-blue wire #1, and the jumper wire got hot!!! what does this mean other than the obvious?

also if I try to push start the car will try to crank but wont actually run, if that makes sense.

I will try grounding the white -red wire #5 when I get home from work today and see what happens there.

you metioned power transistor? where exactly is the transistor?

also there is a black box behind radio that has all the mitsu writing on it, and a "do not drop" label on it, what it this box?

if it were a short in the starter wiring would it affect the rest of the system? also wouldnt that affect the starter also, even with me bypassing the starter relay?

Thanks for all of your help guys

 

[4g63t]

The female spade wire that goes to the starter needs to have a better conection. Cut the old one off and put a nicer one on.

 

[crash89]

clutch switch is unplugged and it does the same thing.

if I jumper the starter relay the car will turnover, and there is spark, but the car will not crank!!!! no fuel!

I tried to jumper the black-white wire #7 to the black-blue wire #1, and the jumper wire got hot!!! what does this mean other than the obvious?

also if I try to push start the car will try to crank but wont actually run, if that makes sense.

I will try grounding the white -red wire #5 when I get home from work today and see what happens there.

you metioned power transistor? where exactly is the transistor?

also there is a black box behind radio that has all the mitsu writing on it, and a "do not drop" label on it, what it this box?

if it were a short in the starter wiring would it affect the rest of the system? also wouldnt that affect the starter also, even with me bypassing the starter relay?

Thanks for all of your help guys

This is where you are confusing people.. It either cranks or it doesnt.. When you turn the key and the starter engages the motor cranks or "turns over".. You wont get spark unless this is happening sooo to me, you saying that you're getting spark is saying that the car is cranking over. Maybe you mean the car wont fire??

The power transistor is is the little guy with about 8 wires in a line between the valve cover and intake manifold.

 

[daplatano91]

Ok so do get a more better image when you try to start the car in cranks but wont start correct? You wording is easy to confuse. The transistor is behind the valve cover between the intake manifold. It carries a rectangular plug with about 8
pins. If you have a friend with a 2g dsm try to use there ecu to see if the car starts. Also when you swing the key do the cam gears actually spin or do you just here the car cranking?

 

[tony070804]

ok sorry.. the car is cranking but will not fire off.

I havent checked to see if the cam gears are spinning, my car actually still has the cover over them. Ill take it off and check it when I get home. what does that mean?

also how can I tell if the transistor is bad?

also will any ecu work for testing purposes?

 

[phunny]

Have you completed everything in this list yet?

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-miscellaneous/217951-how-diagnose-no-start.html

 

[tony070804]

one more thing the car does not have an alarm. so that can be ruled out. all fuses are good too, havent blown any in this process.

 

[92AWDHX40]

do you have, fuel and compression? checked your ecu, coil pack, and transistor next to the coil pack?

 

[98SpyderAWD]

Make sure the fuel pump is working and that you have enough fuel pressure. Also check what was mentioned on above post...

 

[tony070804]

plenty of spark, compression is good. have replaced the mfi relay, cant get the car to crank with the starter relay in. have replaced the relay twice so I know at least one of the 3 are good. if I jumper the starter relay it cranks but no fuel. which is controlled by the ecu and mfi relay right?

Ok so I'm completely running out of ideas, I have changed the ignition and motor fusible link in the fuse box, I have tested the plug for the starter relay and it seems to be getting power, but yet it still won't crank with the starter relay in place. It only cranks if I jump the plug.

I've tried testing the fuel pump relay (which is also new) and no matter how I jump it, it still won't start the fuel pump or fire off.

I've traced as many wires as I can without tearing the motor apart to get to some of them, and all seem good, tightly connected grounds, and all hooked up.

I have a question bout the power transistor, what exactly does it do? ### it looks a lot like an ignition control module? If that's the case, it must be good ### when I jump the starter relay plug the car get plenty of spark.


Ok so here's where I stand - new starter, starter relay, mfi relay, ignition and motor fusible links, and ignition switch.

Everything seems to have power and wiring seems to be good.

Turn key with everything hooked and starter relay clicks, pull starter relay and jump plug and car will crank, with plenty of spark but will not fire! I'm guessing no fuel?

So what is making the car not crank with starter relay in place? And not powering fuel pump no matter what I do?

There is no alarm, neutral safety switch is unplugged, car has sat for year prior to me purchasing it.

I am completely baffled, and out of ideas. I need some real insight into this one, I've checked everything I can think of. Please help!

 

[luv2rallye]

Is this an AT (you mentioned neutral safety switch), or a non-turbo, OR are you using an AT (or non-turbo) wire harness with a MT? If so that may be the problem as the AT and NT starter relay wiring is different.

Has it worked in the past and just stopped working?
Also are you sure it's the starter relay that's clicking and not just the MPI relay or IAC?

The power transistor (PT) fires the coils but there's also a tach output which the ECU uses to activate the FP relay. So this tach output of the PT must be working.

You need to check voltages at the FP and FP relay. If +12v is at the FP relay's black-blue wire while cranking (key in start position), either the FP is dead or the wire to it is.
You mentioned on the FP relay "I tried to jumper the black-white wire #7 to the black-blue wire #1, and the jumper wire got hot!!!" Perhaps your problem is just a short in the wire to the FP.

Remember on a 2g turbo and all 1g's, the FP doesn't run if engine is not spinning (ie. no tach signal from PT). So just having key in On position doesn't do it unless the engine is already running. With engine off the key must go to the Start position to run FP (2g NT is different). Normally pressure is maintained for days in the fuel rail so there is fuel available for starting.

 

[tony070804]

Its a 5 speed car, but I've been corrected for saying clutch switch! Even if the fuel pump worked, that's still not solving the initial problem of the car not cranking with the starter relay in. If I pull the relay and jump the plug it will crank, with spark at all of the plugs, but the fuel pump doesn't engage.

 

[hypergenesis]

Honestly sounds like what happened to my car before you sure it isn't your anti theft? I replaced my starter relay 3 times and what not and ended up having my mechanic add another fuse to the starter relay for some reason to bypass it. Its been running perfect for a year but yet again I don't know the mechanics behind why he did that. He used a 10A fuse and spliced it before the starer relay unless im mistaken.

Don't know if it would work but it did on mine.

Armin

 

[tony070804]

Ok everyone keeps talking bout anti theft, my car doesn't have an aftermarket alarm, or keyless entry even. Is there something I'm missing? I mean I noticed an anti theft fuse but its good.

Also let's get back to the initial problem, went out to start the car and got nothing but a click from the starter relay. Push started the car and it ran fine. Went to start again, and again the click from the starter relay. From this point on the car sat for bout a year, until last weekend when I bought it. And since I've replaced all the parts that I've spoke of previously with no progress!

Now since I've replaced everything I've tried to push start again, it will act kinda like it want to fire off, but not actually do it. Like not even close, just a lil flutter out the exhaust and that's it.

I'm leaning towards an ecu problem? But I'm also completely lost! I've worked on cars my whole life and never been this baffled! I like the challenge, and I love the gsx but my wallet isn't liking it! And I know an ecu isn't cheap, but if that's the problem ill do it! Just need some definite direction here! Thanks for all the help so far, keep it coming guys!

 

[daplatano91]

The car comes with an anti theft system from factory. On your dash do you see a green light saying security? Also close the car. open it through the drivers door with the key. Or the trunk then try starting. Also you never responded back if the cam gears are spinning with the car cranking.

 

[tony070804]

Yes the cam gears are spinning. Belt is good! I have unlocked the doors with key and then tried to start it and nothing different.

 

[bryanwheat]

Not sure why the power transistor was even brought up. The guy has spark when it is turning over. and it is only turning over when he jumps the starter relay, which would indicate an issue from the ignition switch to the relay, nothing else. The starter cranks when the relay is jumped, there is no starter ground problem, there is no problem with the lead on the starter.

 

[tony070804]

Finally something that makes sense! I did replace the ignition switch. So it would have to be the wire from the switch to the relay? Do you happen to know which one it is off the top of your head?

Also would it go through the ecu from the ignition switch in route to the relay? Also any other suggestions?

Thanks

bump

so I will check out the wiring from ignition switch to relay today. are there anymore suggestions?

 

[re-rx7]

Have you took power from the battery to the pump directlly?

 

[DirtyDSMDan]

So, the starter clicks when you just turn ignition key, that means you are getting signal to your starter relay, when you jump the relay to the battery the motor turns over, but no spark, have you tried doing that with the ignition in run? if not then that would be why you have no fuel. another check would be the M terminal on the starter motor, maybe your relay/solenoid isnt connecting to the motor. and in regards to the "clutch switch" thats slang the proper term is "neutral safety switch" and yes, both MT and AT cars have a similar kind of switch, only in modern MT cars, its mounted on the clutch pedal, making it required to push in the clutch to start the car.

 

[tony070804]

Ok so here's where I stand. Got the car turning over. Fuel pump was bad so I replaced it. Have fuel to rail with bout 40 lbs of pressure. Have plenty of spark, and car will fire using starting fluid. So I'm guessing injectors are bad? Tested injectors and they all 4 have bout 2.3 ohms of resistance. All 4 are getting a lil over 12v to each plug with key in the on position. Now like I said the car sat for over a year, so I'm guessing that's why the fuel pump was bad. With all the injectors testing good, is it possible for them to be completely clogged? And if so is there any way to clean them without the car running?

@re-rx7 where in Ardmore are you located? How knowledgeable are you with these cars? Holler if you want and ill give ya my #. Be nice to have someone else local that knows these cars