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Idle drops when clutch is pushed, stalls if reved while holding clutch

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Melbowski

15+ Year Contributor
95
12
Mar 23, 2008
Reese, Michigan
First off, my car is a 98 Talon TSI/AWD, BOV is recirculated, FMIC, and ported 14b. Well, as the title states my idle drops (roughly 300rpm) when I push in the clutch at idle, but only when up to operating temp. If I rev the engine with the clutch in at operating temp, the car dies like you turned off the key, no sputtering or nothing. Meanwhile if I don't push the clutch it is fine, it idles perfectly at 750, and when reved it comes down very smooth and idles great. When driving the rpm's drop like a brick when I push the clutch, and it will stall between every shift if I shift like an old lady.

Long story short the car developed crankwalk (~ 20 thousandths with 160k on stock bearings, is that abnormal wear?) and had this issue, but with replaced bearings it still has the exact same problem, and the end-play is well within spec. So I changed the crank sensor, however the original looks fine, no sign of it ever getting touched. I also changed all the fluids and there were no shavings in the tranny or anywhere else. The problem persisted, so I searched multiple DSM forums which lead me to clean out the throttle body, aic, and tps, but nothing changed. From there I replaced most of the vacuum lines, and can't find any boost or vacuum leaks, so what gives?

I posted over at DSMTalk, and mostly all I received was "OMFG Crankwalk yo!" followed by the classic walking crank pictures. While I do understand that I had crankwalk, I can't see why the problem would remain the same with the crank in spec. I had expected that if it were true crankwalk that the symptoms would eventually come back, but they never left! Anyway, I figure if my car has cancer I should at least get a second opinion before I perform surgery and swap in a 6bolt.

So what's the consensus? Why didn't the problem go away with new bearings, at least for a little while? Is this something more than crankwalk, or am I just crazy? Sorry for the novel, but thanks for taking the time to read it. I appreciate any opinions or ideas. Thanks in advance.

Melbowski
 
Well Sometimes The Crank Will Run Back Into The Block Pretty Far. Then I Seen Guys Just Roll New Bearings And They Were Fine. Your Gona Need To Pull The Bottom End Apart And Assest The Damage. Theres A 2g Eclipse At My Shop Right Now With The Same Thing. So Were Converting It To A 6 Bolt Most Likly.
 
I know it's been a while since I posted to this, but now that I have some free time I've picked up work on the Talon again. I did as 1gDSM suggested and bleed my clutch system, and got two bubbles out of my Slave Cylinder, it unfortunately didn't fix my problem. I've installed a wideband, and at idle it acts very strangely. When at temp the car flucuates rather slowly from going to off the scale rich, to off the scale lean, alternating between the two about once a minute. I assume replacing the O2 sensor is a good idea so I plan to do that shortly.

Also, I checked my timing a while back and at idle it was doing about 8*, and when I checked it yesterday we were getting 20*! WTF!? Unfortunately, the 2g is not adjustable, so I don't know what to do about that, I'm hoping logging software will help me understand what is going on. If all else fails I may have to take it to the stealership *shudders* but I'd like to avoid that option for now.

Meanwhile I ordered an Openport 2.0 cable to use with Evoscan so I can see what my computer is doing, and I have high hopes that since we can reflash 98-99 ECU's now that it'll be well worth the investment later on. The cable will arrive on Monday according to FedEx, so I'll update this when I get it. If anyone has some ideas of what to try next, I'm by far open to anything. Thanks in advance guys.

Melbowski
 
Another update, even though no one is apparently posting here perhaps it'll help the next guy with the same problem. My problem is not resolved, at least not yet. I got EvoScan running, and wow is it a great tool! Anywho, the only thing it's showing wrong is that apparently my Idle Switch in the TPS isn't working correctly, and EvoScan never shows it change, it just stays at 0 even if I push the gas.

Now I know the switch is good, and I personally took over an hour to get it exactly where it was supposed to be set at (.6mm) so it should be working perfectly, but according to Evoscan it isn't. My guess is that the dumbass who had this car before me cut a wire or something in one of his hack-job mods. It's stuck reading as the throttle is pressed and therefore it doesn't make an attempt to idle (the IAC doesn't even move to correct the fall) until I pass the target idle (900rpm according to EvoScan) but with the drag while holding the clutch it's far too late by then. On that note it also doesn't adjust the idle when I push the clutch either (even though it drops a good 300rpm), the IAC stays at 40 steps, further leading me to believe that it's not aware that I've let go of the throttle.

So now I begin the search to test the switch once again, and then trace the wire from the TPS back to the ECU to find the short or cut. I'll post again once I test everything out, I sure hope this solves my problem, otherwise if it's not the sensors it's going to be a mechanical problem, and I really don't want to tear this thing apart atm. Thanks for the help so far guys, I know it's tough to diagnose problems like this, especially when you can't even see the car.

Melbowski
 
How do you know the TPS is working 100%? I'd test it with a multimeter before anything else.

An excellent qustion, and much like you've suggested I've already performed said tests via a digital multimeter and analog ohmeter (I like to be thurough) on my TPS and it works great. I have 3 of them actually (my 3000GT uses the same TPS as the Talon and it came with a spare) and I've had the unfortunate fun of having to test them all. The TPS in the Talon is 100% functioning, including the Idle Switch itself. As such I can only assume that there is some form of connection issue between the TPS and the ECU. You should see the undeside of my dash, I'm not kidding when I say the previous owner did a hack-job...

Thanks for the imput Crimson, I'll retest it just to be absolutely sure before I start my goose chase. Does anyone happen to know which pin the ECU uses for the Idle Switch? From what I can find via diagrams it looks like pin 87, can anyone confirm this? Also, I assume the computer is looking for a voltage to show when the switch is closed, is that correct? All input is appreciated, I'll update this thread after I look at my connections.

Melbowski
 
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