I think I blew a headgasket

[cyrez187]

i have the cometic gasket from conceptillusions and i think i blew it, i was woundering what other guys are using at 20psi and over applications? and another thing what is everyone putting there valve timing at if using the aem tru time gears. thank you

 

[GSGoinFast]

i have the cometic gasket from conceptillusions and i think i blew it, i was woundering what other guys are using at 20psi and over applications? and another thing what is everyone putting there valve timing at if using the aem tru time gears. thank you

You need to get the cam gears dyno tuned, don't just set them at what someone else has. Every car is different. As for the head gasket, most people use the factory MLS as far as I know.

 

[cyrez187]

i was looking on conceptillusions and the factory MLS gasket is one size well i bored my cylinders .20 over will it fit? so u sayin the factory MLS is better than the cometic?i have a fel-pro that came with my howell automotive master performance kit, that one any good? and as for the cam gears the guy that was tuning my car said its alot of work to change them everytime so just ask what other guys put them at and thats a good spot to start. maybe this guy that is tuning my car doesnt know shit then?

 

[dr1665]

i was looking on conceptillusions and the factory MLS gasket is one size well i bored my cylinders .20 over will it fit?

Yes.

OEM MLS sitting on twenty-over cylinders.
http://az2gnt.net/DR1665/Daisy/420A/hg+arp072505.JPG

so u sayin the factory MLS is better than the cometic?

Yes. For this application.

i have a fel-pro that came with my howell automotive master performance kit, that one any good?

If it's a MLS HG. Yes.

and as for the cam gears the guy that was tuning my car said its alot of work to change them everytime so just ask what other guys put them at and thats a good spot to start.

Notice he said "Good place to start." Do some research into where others set their cams. It shouldn't matter between brands of gears (although the AEMs do have a reputation for being inaccurate). If you see most people setting timing X*intake X*exhaust, then you can go to the dyno, set your shit accordingly, and start tuning from there.

maybe this guy that is tuning my car doesnt know shit then?

You're the one with a crappy HG that's paying someone else to do his tuning, man. If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself. Time to do some homework, imo.

 

[cyrez187]

it says its fel-pro 9922pt and at bottom says permatorqueMLS so i guess it is like the oem maybe better, actually its the same as one in the pisture above. and why is the oem mls better for this application than the cometic please explain the resons thank you

 

[dr1665]

actually its the same as one in the pisture above.

Only reason the one in that picture is leaking is because I didn't get the head resurfaced prior to installation. Head came off, new gasket went in (with ARPs) and head went right back on. Well, almost right back on. I spent something like 28 hours on that project since the engine was still in the car and it was better than 120* outside that weekend.

and why is the oem mls better for this application than the cometic please explain the resons thank you

Just personal preference. I have never heard anyone say anything bad about the OEM MLS HG, but I have heard a number of people talk about Cometic HGs failing well before their time and vowing to never go back to them. Remember, just because a product is aftermarket doesn't mean it's better. That's the wrong mentality to have. It can get expensive really quick.

At the same time, what makes you think the HG went on you? I see nothing in this thread mentioning compression test numbers, oil in coolant overflow bottles, smoke, or leaking. Just curious...

 

[cyrez187]

no oil on coolant but, spark plugs have white tips and coolant overflow tank keeps gushing out and cant get low temps all point to head gasket im doin a compression test tomorrow
so the gasket that i said i have the fel-pro that will fit with my .20 over cylinders? i have some blow back as well like oil coming out of spark plugs prob valve cover gasket but i have a bit of oil in the intake and outlet of turbo, what causes that?? thank you again

 

[GSGoinFast]

no oil on coolant but, spark plugs have white tips and coolant overflow tank keeps gushing out and cant get low temps all point to head gasket im doin a compression test tomorrow
so the gasket that i said i have the fel-pro that will fit with my .20 over cylinders? i have some blow back as well like oil coming out of spark plugs prob valve cover gasket but i have a bit of oil in the intake and outlet of turbo, what causes that?? thank you again

None of that points to a bad head gasket. Oil on the spark plugs would probably mean spark plug tube seals are bad. Oil in the intake by the turbo could mean blown turbo seals or possibly an oil return that has a kink or a tough bend in it not allowing oil to flow freely. Coolent boiling over could mean a bad pressure cap or a leak somewhere. Don't jump the gun when diagnosing your problems.

 

[BigRand]

None of that points to a bad head gasket. Oil on the spark plugs would probably mean spark plug tube seals are bad. Oil in the intake by the turbo could mean blown turbo seals or possibly an oil return that has a kink or a tough bend in it not allowing oil to flow freely. Coolent boiling over could mean a bad pressure cap or a leak somewhere. Don't jump the gun when diagnosing your problems.

For the overheating problem, try doing a coolant flush, replacing the thermostat and radiator cap, and using some watter wetter with water and 18-50% coolant. (according to redline water wetter bottle).

You would be surpised at how a lack of pressure in the coolant system will make your car over heat quickly. 1st thing I suggest to anyone having an overheating problem is to change the cap, because its cheap and quick.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Those are textbook signs of a headgasket sorry guys. Your plugs are white because your getting a small amount of coolant in the cylinder and during the combustion process the Plug will appear that it is very lean due to the amount of steam that is created from the heat. Coolant resevoir is textbook sign. Coolant temp problem is due to air pockets in the head from the compression stroke.

Cyrez, just get a head set from the dealer. Should be about 110.00. Pull the head and have a machine shop check it for warpage and mill it if necassary.

If it does need to be milled, your cam gears will be a great deal of help to set the cams at the "Zero'd" timing spot. Count on milling the head.

Terry

 

[cyrez187]

ya they at 0 degree now just curious what other people are putting them at around. and the guy that is tuning my car said u can get like a copper sealer of some sort for the HG, anyone herd of this?

 

[Talon ESI-T]

He is referring to one of 2 things. Either a Copper Headgasket or Copper spray for metal headgaskets.

A Copper headgasket is used in high performance applications but is recommended to be used only when both surfaces of the head and block are freshly milled. People have used Copper headgaskets when doing a routine headjob in V-8's and not had a problem.

Copper spray is a spray type material you coat both sides of the metal HeadGasket, the block surface, and head surface. This is used on metal headgaskets only to improve heat transfer and prevent hot spots in the mating surfaces. To explain why, think of the head surface and block surface in terms of a microscope. The metal is not actually perfectly smooth, its a combination of scratches and grooves that make up a surface that appears and feels perfectly smooth to your finger. Now since you do not have 100% surface contact between the block and gasket, the spray is applied to both surfaces so that heat can transfer from one to the other in every single little tiny microscopic location. the spray will fill these tiny scratches so that their is an "avenue" for the heat to transfer across. The reason why the spray has a copper base. Copper is the best material for heat transfer.

What happens if the heat cant transfer from one to the other in a given spot? Imagine 2 identical spots on a block surface. One spot makes 100% contact with the headgasket, one does not. The heat in the spot that doesnt make contact cannot go anywhere and is trapped. The heat in the spot that makes contact transfers the heat from the block to the head. Which spot will be a higher temp? The spot that is not able to transfer the heat from the block to the head.

What happens when one location of the block mating surface is higher temp than another? Warpage. This will actually more likely happen to the head since it is aluminum.

Now why cant the heat from a non contacting spot move to a contacting spot and transfer to the head like that? Can you fit an unlimited number of people through a doorway at the same time and at the same rate of movement?

So you see the Copper spray is to allow heat to transfer from the block to the gasket to the head more efficiently reducing the chances of warpage. The spray is not robust enough to actually "seal" the gasket.

Terry

 

[cyrez187]

so the copper spray is a good idea? and so the gasket that i said i have the fel-pro mls9922pt will fit with my .20 over cylinders?

 

[GSGoinFast]

I think he should atleast do a compression test before jumping to the conclusion of his problem being a head gasket. The tips of my spark plugs have always gotten a little bit of white on them ever since I got the car. My compression has always been solid and I have never had any coolant boiling problems. I guess all I'm trying to say is do a little more testing to make sure before you spend the money for a head gasket and put in the hours to change it.

 

[Talon ESI-T]

so the copper spray is a good idea? and so the gasket that i said i have the fel-pro mls9922pt will fit with my .20 over cylinders?

Its just a little insurance to use the spray. I have seen a few guys not use it and not had any issues.

Chris (GSGOINFAST) yeah chris its normal for your coolant pressure to drastically increase. years as a mechanic, what do I know. Do what you guys feel is correct. you have my opinion.

Terry

 

[cyrez187]

what is the copper seal stuff called?

 

[GSGoinFast]

Its just a little insurance to use the spray. I have seen a few guys not use it and not had any issues.

Chris (GSGOINFAST) yeah chris its normal for your coolant pressure to drastically increase. years as a mechanic, what do I know. Do what you guys feel is correct. you have my opinion.

Terry

I'm not saying your wrong by any sense, I'm just saying coolant can boil from other causes besides a head gasket leak. Your probably right and it probably is the head gasket, but a compression test is quick and easy and it can't hurt.

 

[cyrez187]

ya im gonna try to do one tonight but couple of questions, whats the copper seal called and will fel-pro 9922pt mls gasket fit if your cylinders bored .20 over?

 

[Talon ESI-T]

what is the copper seal stuff called?

Here you go:

http://permatex.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/42287/80697

Terry

 

[cyrez187]

thanks man but will that HG that i got work with what i need and for high boost applications?

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Your asking if the MLS gasket will hold high HP??

That all depends on what you consider high HP. To me high HP is 600-700 hp and the answer to that is maybe. The MLS will hold just fine to mild HP 300-500.

Terry

 

[cyrez187]

ya and will it fit if my cylinders are .20 bored over?but putting that copper gasket sealer is a good idea for sure

 

[Talon ESI-T]

20 over or even 40 over is just fine on the MLS gasket.

 

[cyrez187]

perfect, well i did a compression test and well i got cylinder #1 140 #2 150 #3 150 and # 145 so thats pretty good right. so now i am completely lost of what is going on with my car. making no power and over heating as well as colient just spraying outta the overflow!

 

[Talon ESI-T]

I am still sticking with Headgasket replacement. Compression numbers can be misleading, I have seen it in Ford Taurus's, even my own borther in laws car. Take it to a shop for a second opinion.

Terry