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2G I NEED replacement rotors - Baer Track and Cobra bbk questions

Posted by housegsx, Nov 19, 2008

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  1. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    OK, I'm frustrated. I have the Baer Track kit (part # 4611002) front brakes. 13". I need new rotors and here's my dilemma...

    Baer replacement rotor are expensive, but mainly I can't find them in the configuration I want. I swore they made them in P (plain), PZ (plain, zinc coated), SZ (slotted, zinc coated), DZ (drilled, zinc coated), and SDZ (slotted, drilled, and zinc coated). It turns out I can only find them in P (generic part # 1130110P) or SDZ (generic part #1130110SDZ). I want them in SZ or PZ. I do not want drilled, and I don't want rust.

    Now, Mustang Cobras use the same type of brakes from the factory. 13"x1.1" Same calipers etc as the Baers. I want to be able to use Cobra replacement rotors to give me more options on rotor choice. Can I do this?
    Here is what I know and what I don't know.

    Know

    -Same diameter(13")
    -Same thickness(1.1")
    -Same caliper
    -Same bolt pattern(5x114.3mm)


    Don't Know

    -Does the rotor have a different offset? BIG Question!!!
    Will the hub center of the rotor be the right size? (DSM is 67.1mm and I think Mustang is 70.5mm so I should only need hub centric rings, which I have. They came with the Baer kit)
    -Anything else I should know as far as fitment goes?



    I need to know if the Cobra rotors will fit right on or if they don't can I modify the bracket spacing to make them work. If I can use a Cobra rotor I will have many more options for aftermarket rotors. I'd like to make this work.

    Does anyone know how I could find the dimensions of the Cobra rotor? Or maybe someone has an old one laying around I could have for test fitment. I really want to get out of the hold Baer has on me for their rotors.ROFL
     

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  2. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    I nobody has any input on this I think I might buy a cheap Mustang Cobra rotor from the parts store to use as a test fit. If I can get it work I'll let everyone know.
     
  3. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    You'll need to buy calipers from a 88-96 Vette, or a 94-04 Ford Cobra. I've seen them on ebay for $50-$70:
    eBay Motors: C4 CORVETTE J55 HD BRAKE CALIPERS,HANGERS AND ROTORS (item 180279259755 end time Aug-26-08 06:55:15 PDT)

    eBay Motors: Corvette 1988 to 1994 Front Calipers New OEM (item 200247854937 end time Aug-29-08 06:44:07 PDT)

    Then you need rotors. Call up Baer and order a fresh set ($100 to $150 for 13" rotors, more if you want drilled or coatings, or $200-$225 if you want light two piece 13.2" rotors with aluminum hats).

    I coppied all this info someone else gave that to me. I don't know if it is correct or no. The E-bay links are expired long time ago, I just got this info, so you know the rotors from which car a may be compatible with Baer's. Hope this helps a little.
     

    921  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  4. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    I already have the calipers. The Baers are the same calipers as a Vette or Cobra...

    BAERs.jpg

    I need replacement rotors. I want to be able to fit Cobra rotors so I'm not limited to the replacements that Baer sells as part of their track kit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014
  5. projecTSI

    projecTSI Proven Member

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    I've got a set of Cobra rotors laying around, I can measure them for you. But they are at my parents house, so it will have to wait until after Thanksgiving break.
     
  6. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    ^That would be cool. :cool: If not, I'll just have to buy one to test fit.

    Also, I found out Baer will custom make the rotors in the configuration I want, but I'd still rather be able to just shop for Mustang rotors online.
     
  7. andy4g63

    andy4g63 Proven Member

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    Do you have exact idea, which calipers exactly are on the Baer's kit? Mustang , or Vette and what year? Thanks. Also' let me know for the rotors, after you find any. Thanks again ,ANDY.
     

    921  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  8. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    I believe the calipers are exactly the same. They are PBR calipers. Baer just puts their logo on them.

    Vette - ZR1 or model year 95-96
    Mustang Cobra - Which ever ones came with 13" rotors. I believe any Cobra from 99-04. Maybe others. I think the Mach1's have them too.

    They are both basically the same other than the rotors. Vettes have a 5 inch bolt pattern, that's why I'm interested in the Mustang rotors. Mustangs have 5x4.5(114.3mm), same as a DSM.
     
  9. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    Quick question... Are the Cobra rotors directional vaned? I was shopping around for them and the only time I can select right or left is when the rotors are slotted or drilled. This leads me to believe they aren't directionally vaned.

    If that's the case I'll probably stick with Baer rotors.
     
  10. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    My-town, Pennsylvania
    I'm in the same boat as you. I have the Baer Track kit also.

    I looked into doing the exact same thing your doing. I kind of gave up hope with using the Cobra rotors too.

    Short of having a set right in front of me to determine fitments, I couldn't come up with anything except for the fact that I have found that depending on the manufacturer of the Cobra rotors, they can be had directionally vained or straight vained. It's been a while though and don't recall the names of the manufacturers........... Sorry.

    The best bet is to take the plunge with the 2 piece rotors and just buy replacement rotors when you need them. My next set will be the 2 piece ones.

    I have an extra brand new Baer replacement set of the 1 piece rotors that are zinc plated, but they are slotted and drilled. I know you don't want the drilled ones.
     
  11. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    I kind of gave up on the Cobra rotors as well.

    I spoke with Dave from buybrakes.com. He can get me the Baer rotors in any configuration I want, it just takes a couple weeks to get them. I might get those in a while.

    If you are trying to get rid of those new replacements PM me about it. I may be interested if you aren't going to use them.
     
  12. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    Yeah, I'd like to pick up the 2 piece rotors myself. Did Dave from buybrakes give you pricing?

    Maybe I'll give him a call and check.

    If I can find the 2 piece rotors for a reasonable price, I would be willing to get rid of the 1 piece rotor set I have.

    They are brand new. NEVER used. NEVER even mounted up actually.
     
  13. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    Here's the pricing I got. These are for 1 piece rotors...

    SDZ - $187.50 each
    Plain - $157.60 each
    Slotted - $180.10 each
     
  14. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    Those prices are pretty good.

    I paid a bit more for my Zinc washed, slotted & drilled rotors................ :(

    I'll price the 2 piece rotors on Monday.

    If your interested in the 1 piece set I have, PM me. I'll give you my cell# and you can call me if your OK with that.................... It's probably easier then the PM'ing back and forth thing.

    I can ship them to you and you won't have the wait time if you ordered a set. Were both in Pennsylvania so you'd get them pretty quick.

    I think last time I priced the 2 piece rotors, I nearly fell over though. WTF They ain't cheap.

    PM me if your interested in the 1 piece set.

    Thanks.
     
  15. GreenGSX

    GreenGSX DSM Wiseman

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    Rochester, New York
    I've had the Track kit on my 1G for years now and I've been using 95 Mustang Cobra rotors and pads at a rate of 2-3 sets a year. I used to use the China white box type for about $50 each. They worked perfectly well but I've since switched the "signature" series rotors from raceshopper.com. They have a package deal where you get a set of HT10's and rotors for about $275ish.

    I haven't seen the rotors for the 2G track set but I know the pads are the same as the 1G's.
     

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    1992 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    11.950 @ 119.200 · 1G DSM
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  16. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    The rotors are probably the same too. If there's any difference it would only be the offset on them. I'd bet they designed any difference into the bracket rather than the rotor.

    I haven't made up my mind yet. I've got an email with a discount code so I can get my rotors for $162 each which isn't too bad.

    Weapon-x, I'll let you know what I'm going to do. I haven't made up my mind yet.
     
  17. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    Sure, No problem. There's no "push" on my end.

    I'm still gonna call on Monday about getting some current pricing for the 2 piece rotors. I may pick up a set to try anyway.

    I've heard of good and bad things concerning the use of the 2 piece rotors. There's definitely pros and cons to using them.

    1 big thing is that I'm not 100% sold on the "cost" end of things. They still end up being a more expensive investment then the 1 piece rotors.

    If you do happen to want the 1 piece rotors and choose to do business with me, I can point you in the right direction for references of who I am and 100% feedback from a few dozen transactions.

    I can be vouched for by a few trust-worthy guys/vendors on the forums that know me personally and from a business stand-point.

    I may look into the Mustang rotors some more also.

    Maybe I'll look into somehow getting a set so I can do a side by side comparison between them and the Cobra fitment.

    I have a feeling that on the 2g's Baer dictated the offset with the caliper adapter in such a way that the Cobra rotors won't be a direct "drop-in" replacement.

    I thought I read somewhere before that someone tried the Cobra replacement rotors with the Baer kit on there 2g and the pads were dragging horribly. That would obviously correspond with my theory on the way Baer designed the caliper adapter.

    I'll have to try and look back into things again.
     
  18. housegsx

    housegsx Moderator

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    I think I've seen the "upgrade" to the Baer kit cost an additional $500. So 2 piece is not cheap.

    Also, I'm not sure I'd want to run 2 piece rotors with a typical floating caliper. They just aren't going to put even pressure on both sides no matter how good they are. I wouldn't want to see a caliper cause an aluminum hat to fail. I believe some local guy with an Ultralite S2K had this problem, but I'm not 100% sure that was the issue.
     
  19. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    Yeah, I checked on pricing and I'm looking at $565- shipped. Erik from buybrakes gave me the price.

    Bill from Baer Brakes told me $575- + shipping.

    They are sold a little bit cheaper as the "upgrade" but when purchasing seperately they want more $$$.

    Kind of sucks........... They are all ready too much $$$ as it is.

    Yeah, I'm not too sure about using the 2 piece rotors with the PBR floating calipers either. I know they are notorious for there un-even pad wear, especially when being "pushed" to higher load situations.

    I don't know how that would affect the 2 piece rotors since I don't have first hand experience.

    On 1 hand I think they would be fine since the 2 piece rotors handle thermal transfers and loading slightly better then a 1 piece rotor.

    But then on the other hand it also makes me wonder if problems will occur because of those thermal differences.

    There's an obvious difference with how the cast iron friction area responds to heat compared to the rate of the aluminum hat.

    Then on top of it I believe the hardware that is used is stainless steel.

    There's a hell of a mix of different materials there in a small package all with different thermal expansion rates.

    I don't know................ The 2 piece rotors are a hell of an expensive investment, to end up not liking them in the end.

    My main concern is if there really is that much of a benefit for there cost.

    I'm not even sure if running a 2 piece rotor on the street is that great of an idea anyway,

    There's a bit more of a "maintenance factor" so to speak.

    A track car should properly be inspected before all usage anyway. The rotors would obviously be incorporated into regular inspections/maintenance.

    On a street driven car most inspections fall into your annual inspection at least in Pennsylvania. And that's really if it even gets done.

    Most owners get in the car, drive it, etc. And really don't look at the brakes unless there is some type of problem occurring. A 2 piece rotor really isn't for that type of person.

    Now granted, there are those select few......... Me being one of them and maybe yourself that do our own regular inspections beyond that of an annual inspection, but I can tell you myself, That I don't feel like inspecting 2 piece rotors every time I drive the damn car.

    Maybe I'm making more out of it then I need to. :sosad:
     
  20. Weapon-X

    Weapon-X Proven Member

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    Hey Andy, I'm not 100% sure but close enough..................... :thumb:

    I think Baer assembles the caliper like this........................ Mustang caliper(main portion holding the pistons), BUT................ then they take the mounting bracket used on the Mustang caliper and then machine the lower mounting portion of the bracket to mount to adapters and then mount to our spindles. If you look at a Mustang caliper including the mounting bracket and the Baer caliper and mounting bracket side by side you will see what I mean.

    Baer machines off the ears or mounting tabs on the Mustang mounting bracket, machines the lower rear face of the bracket then drills and taps new mounting holes since they were removed when they machined off the ears or mounting tabs on the bracket.

    I have seen some different calipers on the vettes though. Yes they are PBR calipers, but different designs then the Mustang caliper and bracket. The ones on the vettes actually have a larger "finned" or heat sink type design on the caliper then the Mustang calipers.

    Unfortunately Baer has one hell of an Engineering and design team. They are WONDERFUL at redesigning a product to be applicable on many applications............ All usually through some nice machining tricks.


    I don't know if any of this helps you.
     
  21. mikejsmith1985

    mikejsmith1985 Proven Member

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    Bethel, Ohio
    reviving an old thread... I have the Baer Track kit on my GST and I'm transitioning all my racecar stuff to an AWD platform that's in better shape.

    I've emailed Baer to request exact specs of their rotors as I don't care to pay $187 each + shipping
    If that is something you want to do you won't find this kit on their website any longer.
    Current Part #s: 6910078/6920078​

    So we have posts in the forum stating that the Cobra rotors work ( post #15 of this thread) and we have posts stating that they don't fit.
    I've found on Rock auto that 95 Cobra rotors are in fact the same part number for Centric and Powerstop as the 04. The 95 for some reason doesn't have a motorcraft part # for front rotors. None the less it makes me believe that any Cobra rotor from 95-04 should be dimensionally identical, no idea why they would change and then go back somewhere in the middle.

    Centric specs for the rotor are:
    Outer Diameter: 12.99"
    Height: 1.72
    Nom Thick: 1.10"
    Min Thick: 1.04"
    Hub Reg: 2.80"
    Bolt Size: 0.60"
    Bolt Circle: 5 x 4.50"
    Weight: 19.5 lbs

    According to Baer's website they offer 2 hub offsets and 2 bolt patterns;
    13" replacement rotors used Track4 and other Baer systems.
    Rotor Diameter: 13"
    Rotor Thickness: 1.10"
    Rotor Bolt Circle: 5x4.5" or 5x4.75", select below
    Available Finishes: Slot/Drilled/Zinc, Slot only or Plain, select below
    Notes:
    These rotors are available in Short (1.717" o/a height) or Tall (2.232" o/a height) hat configurations and are directional, specific to the right or left side of the vehicle, please select below. If you are unsure on what rotor you need, please contact sales for clarification. Rotors sold individually,

    That being said I believe if I go measure my rotor height with a set of calipers and I'm at the 1.7x dimensionally there should be no difference between the Cobra rotors and the Baer rotors spec'd at 1.717 & 5 x 4.5

    This weekend I intend to take this measurement and if it checks out, I'll pick up a rotor to do a test fit also. I'm thinking worst case scenario if it is off a bit perhaps a rotor shim could resolve the hub offset. I will update this post with my findings. I hope this is able to help anyone else that's in this situation.

    * edit 1: Baer has provided the engineering diagram for the rotors used in this kit:
    * edit 2: picked up a rotor from a 95 Cobra and the offset of the hub was too shallow. I used a set of calipers and used a flat pc of steel across the back face of the rotor and measured to the back side of the “hat” which mates agains the hub. The offset on my Baer rotor was 13.2mm deeper than the rotor from the 95 cobra. May have them check the part # for the rotor from a couple different years just to see if anything changes.

    * edit 3 Oreilly has the same part # for all 95-04 Cobra/Cobra R rotors as what they gave me.
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2019

    189  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  22. talon77

    talon77 Proven Member

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    Joined Sep 12, 2004
    annapolis, Maryland
    I bought these mustang rotors to replace the original rotors that came with the Baer/PBR front brakes kit. Combined with hub rings that I sourced from Ziggy at RTMRacing, they work great and fit 100%. The only PITA mod that I have to do is to drill 2 holes in each rotor hat to clear the ABS ring bolts that protrude from the hub; but again, that is only because I have chosen to retain my ABS.
     

    Attached Files:

    Road Race Build 2K  17

    1994 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    345 whp · 318 lb/ft · 1G DSM
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  23. mikejsmith1985

    mikejsmith1985 Proven Member

    73
    6
    Joined Dec 15, 2009
    Bethel, Ohio
    Glad you brought up ABS, my GST doesn’t have it but the Talon I’m moving to does and I also will not delete it.
     

    189  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  24. mikejsmith1985

    mikejsmith1985 Proven Member

    73
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    Joined Dec 15, 2009
    Bethel, Ohio
    Updated post 21 “edit 2” with why the 95 cobra rotor doesn’t fit in my application.
     

    189  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  25. mikejsmith1985

    mikejsmith1985 Proven Member

    73
    6
    Joined Dec 15, 2009
    Bethel, Ohio
    I'm unable to edit post 21 for some reason:

    So some additional things that I've found. C4 corvettes are mentioned yet I've always bought pads for c5 corvettes. So I looked on Rock Auto at the corvette c4&c5 rotors and the 13" options actually look more like the baer rotor than the Cobra rotors, it's got a small valley at the edge of the ring then the sidewalls of the hats have a chamfer then join the face about 5mm below the surface that the wheel mates to. Unfortunately for all c4/c5 rotors the lug pattern is 5x120 not 5x114.3
    I don't know why it would be different for a 1g than a 2g but every reference I find to successfully using the cobra rotors is from someone with a 1g and every instance of a fitment issue I've read is on a 2g.
     

    189  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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