1G I NEED A TRANNY EXPERTS HELP

[a91eagletalon]

I need help identifying these 3 gear sets. Gear set A I know is out of a 92 transmission i believe. Gear set B I think is from a 91 not sure. Gear set C I believe it's from a 91 but I'm not sure about that either. Can someone help me identify these gear sets I'm not sure what all the groove marks mean and how they're supposed to match up. I am trying to replace the A set of gears.
Possibly the gear set cluster on the intermediate shaft on set B and C could be switched around. As in pressed of the C shaft and put on the B shaft. I hope this is not to confusing. Ask any questions I'll will get right back with you.

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Gears set A

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Gear set B

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Gear set C

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[92AWDHX40]

Message kelaton. Or tim zimmer. Very knowledgeable.

 

[bastarddsm]

a is late 91-92,

b is most likely a late 90-early 91, but possible it's a 90, need to take 1/2 off the shaft.
C is a late 90- early 91

All are semi desireable stuff. Don't throw it away.

 

[motomattx]

The major differences where between the 90' stuff and the stuff newer than 90'. Exactly what are you looking to accomplish?

 

[a91eagletalon]

The major differences where between the 90' stuff and the stuff newer than 90'. Exactly what are you looking to accomplish?

I am trying to replace the A set of gears. When I put the B set in it doesn't seam to mesh as nice as the A set did. Should the B set work in a 92 transmission.

 

[motomattx]

Im saying they SHOULD as long as you re-shim for them.

 

[donniekak]

The mid 1991-1999 gears and shafts will all interchange with each other, as long as they are used with a 91-99 center diff and the correct 3-4 fork for the slider.

The 1990 stuff has a different helix angle and won't work with other years.


As for what you find in a trans, it's a crap shoot. The last 2g trans I did had 1990 gears in it.

 

[a91eagletalon]

The mid 1991-1999 gears and shafts will all interchange with each other, as long as they are used with a 91-99 center diff and the correct 3-4 fork for the slider.

The 1990 stuff has a different helix angle and won't work with other years.


As for what you find in a trans, it's a crap shoot. The last 2g trans I did had 1990 gears in it.

So if i get a set from a mid 91-99 they should drop in this trans witch is a 92.

 

[donniekak]

So if i get a set from a mid 91-99 they should drop in this trans witch is a 92.

Any set will drop in. You just have to make sure the gears, shafts, and center diff match each other.

 

[a91eagletalon]

Any set will drop in. You just have to make sure the gears, shafts, and center diff match each other.

ok got it so in this case i have all 92 stuff witch means I need the newer gear sets. correct

 

[motomattx]

You need 91 and up gears, and diff assembly, correct.

 

[a91eagletalon]

You need 91 and up gears, and diff assembly, correct.

Thanks man I will hunt me down some gear sets

 

[donniekak]

The 93-99 3-4 setup uses a different fork/rail with 3 holes in it. But the gears will mesh with 91-92 stuff.

 

[a91eagletalon]

The 93-99 3-4 setup uses a different fork/rail with 3 holes in it. But the gears will mesh with 91-92 stuff.

Ok so I can get the gears sets from a 95-96 Do I only need the 3-4 rail and fork from the 95-96 gears then to make it work in my 92 transmission.

 

[donniekak]

Depends on what center diff you're using. The center diff, intermediate shaft, and 3-4 gear setup have to all match.

 

[a91eagletalon]

So the 90 early 91 witch is gear set B should work then as long as I get a 90 center dif and everything else in the transmission that is a 92 should work with it .

 

[donniekak]

Yes. The 1990 center diff can be identified by a lack of a notch in the gear teeth on the lower case.

 

[a91eagletalon]

a is late 91-92,

b is most likely a late 90-early 91, but possible it's a 90, need to take 1/2 off the shaft.
C is a late 90- early 91

All are semi desireable stuff. Don't throw it away.

Do you have a source that helps you identify the gear sets or is it just years of experience only reason I am asking is if you had something that I can use to identify these in the future.

 

[a91eagletalon]

Can someone please identify these gear sets they say they are from a 92 but wasn't sure .

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[twicks69]

Can someone please identify these gear sets they say they are from a 92 but wasn't sure .

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That is a 90-early 1991 gearset in post #19; single synchro 1/2/3/4, early style gears.
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As for your original post, A is a 1991.6-1992.5, B and C are 90 style gearsets but you have your input shaft mixed up with the intermediate shaft cluster for B and C -- I can tell this because your 1st gear and input shaft are mis-matched. Looks like a 1991 galant VR4 1st gear (3 marks on gear and no mark on input shaft 2nd gear). Neither of the B or C gearsets will be directly interchangeable with the "A" gearset. You would have to swap the center diff housing and input shaft 3rd/4th and intermediate shaft to all match gear tooth profiles.

The 1990-1991.5 gears have 3rd gear (no markings), 4th gear (2 marks evenly spaced on gear teeth), Intermediate shaft has 1 mark on 3rd gear cluster gear and 4th clustergear has no marking. The center differential housing to match will have NO MARKINGS on the housing teeth.

The 1991.6-1999 intermediate shaft has 3 markings on the 3rd cluster gear, no markings on 4th cluster gear. You will need to use 3rd/4th gears from a 1991.6-1992.5 with the 3rd/4th hub and sliders you have there and then use the proper 3rd/4th shift rail to match your shift selector assembly in the case. All of your gears you have shown for 3rd/4th have a 1990-1992.5 style 3rd/4th hub and slider and will use a 2-hole 3rd/4th shift fork. You will need to use DSM 3rd/4th from a 1991.6-1992.5 with 3rd and 4th having 3 markings on each gear on the gear teeth. The center diff housing will have 1 mark on the gear teeth of the housing; that specifies a 1991.6-1999 style housing.

As for input shafts, to run a DSM AWD 1st (1 mark offset towards the 1st/2nd hub and slider) you will need to run the input shaft that has 1 mark centered on the 2nd cluster gear of the shaft. The other input shaft with no marking on the 2nd cluster gear matches to the 1st gear with the three markings on it which would be a GVR4 1st gear. All 3 2nd gears you have shown are DSM AWD ratio 2nd's with the offset mark towards the 1st/2nd hub and slider.

Regarding the intermediate shafts and 1st/2nd gearset for the "B" and "C" sets you will need to disassemble them and confirm the needle bearing dimensions. The early 1990-mid 1991 stuff had small diameter needle bearings that are the same dimensionally as the 3rd/4th needle bearings. The late 1991-1999 stuff has large diameter 1st/2nd needle bearings that are bigger than the 3rd/4th needle bearings. You will need to run a matching 1st/2nd hub and slider / intermediate shaft and 1st/2nd gears if you have small diameter stuff, along with the 1st gear needle bearing sleeve. If they are both large diameter needle bearings on your "B" and "C" shafts then the gearsets will be interchangeable with each other.

Still, to run the GVR4 1st gear you will need the matching input shaft to go with the gear. The 2nd gears I see in the pictures include a mid-year single synchro (B), a late single synchro (A) and a late model double synchro (C - cluster with GVR4 1st).

 

[bastarddsm]

Tim,
thanks for that very descriptive response. I've been acquiring this knowledge for a while, but this filled in many gaps.

A few questions.
Does the 1st/2nd/input shaft markings you mentioned go for all years?

Next, are you sure about all 90-91 sets having small bearings? I thought it was just 89-90 that had the small bearings. I'm pretty sure I've had several 90-91 sets that used the bigger modern needle bearings. In fact right now my car has a 90 set in it, with the no mark 2 tab lower washer cd, but it's big bearings. I just now got my first small bearing 90 set.

 

[a91eagletalon]

That is a 90-early 1991 gearset in post #19; single synchro 1/2/3/4, early style gears.
------------------------------------------------------

As for your original post, A is a 1991.6-1992.5, B and C are 90 style gearsets but you have your input shaft mixed up with the intermediate shaft cluster for B and C -- I can tell this because your 1st gear and input shaft are mis-matched. Looks like a 1991 galant VR4 1st gear (3 marks on gear and no mark on input shaft 2nd gear). Neither of the B or C gearsets will be directly interchangeable with the "A" gearset. You would have to swap the center diff housing and input shaft 3rd/4th and intermediate shaft to all match gear tooth profiles.

The 1990-1991.5 gears have 3rd gear (no markings), 4th gear (2 marks evenly spaced on gear teeth), Intermediate shaft has 1 mark on 3rd gear cluster gear and 4th clustergear has no marking. The center differential housing to match will have NO MARKINGS on the housing teeth.

The 1991.6-1999 intermediate shaft has 3 markings on the 3rd cluster gear, no markings on 4th cluster gear. You will need to use 3rd/4th gears from a 1991.6-1992.5 with the 3rd/4th hub and sliders you have there and then use the proper 3rd/4th shift rail to match your shift selector assembly in the case. All of your gears you have shown for 3rd/4th have a 1990-1992.5 style 3rd/4th hub and slider and will use a 2-hole 3rd/4th shift fork. You will need to use DSM 3rd/4th from a 1991.6-1992.5 with 3rd and 4th having 3 markings on each gear on the gear teeth. The center diff housing will have 1 mark on the gear teeth of the housing; that specifies a 1991.6-1999 style housing.

As for input shafts, to run a DSM AWD 1st (1 mark offset towards the 1st/2nd hub and slider) you will need to run the input shaft that has 1 mark centered on the 2nd cluster gear of the shaft. The other input shaft with no marking on the 2nd cluster gear matches to the 1st gear with the three markings on it which would be a GVR4 1st gear. All 3 2nd gears you have shown are DSM AWD ratio 2nd's with the offset mark towards the 1st/2nd hub and slider.

Regarding the intermediate shafts and 1st/2nd gearset for the "B" and "C" sets you will need to disassemble them and confirm the needle bearing dimensions. The early 1990-mid 1991 stuff had small diameter needle bearings that are the same dimensionally as the 3rd/4th needle bearings. The late 1991-1999 stuff has large diameter 1st/2nd needle bearings that are bigger than the 3rd/4th needle bearings. You will need to run a matching 1st/2nd hub and slider / intermediate shaft and 1st/2nd gears if you have small diameter stuff, along with the 1st gear needle bearing sleeve. If they are both large diameter needle bearings on your "B" and "C" shafts then the gearsets will be interchangeable with each other.

Still, to run the GVR4 1st gear you will need the matching input shaft to go with the gear. The 2nd gears I see in the pictures include a mid-year single synchro (B), a late single synchro (A) and a late model double synchro (C - cluster with GVR4 1st).

Holy crap that is alot of information in one post thanks man. I will do some checking on my parts. I was going to do some detailed drawing of all the gear set and lable them with the correct marking and locations I was just going to do it for my self but would anyone be interested in something like that.

 

[twicks69]

Tim,
thanks for that very descriptive response. I've been acquiring this knowledge for a while, but this filled in many gaps.

A few questions.
Does the 1st/2nd/input shaft markings you mentioned go for all years?

Next, are you sure about all 90-91 sets having small bearings? I thought it was just 89-90 that had the small bearings. I'm pretty sure I've had several 90-91 sets that used the bigger modern needle bearings. In fact right now my car has a 90 set in it, with the no mark 2 tab lower washer cd, but it's big bearings. I just now got my first small bearing 90 set.

The markings on DSM AWD gears from 90-99 all have the 1st gear and 2nd gear identification mark towards the hub and slider. They are different for Evo 1 and some of the other JDM stuff and FWD stuff are different.

As for "all" 90-91 sets having small bearings no, stupid mitsubishi was supposed to have small bearings ONLY on 1989-1990.2 and then change to large diameter bearings from 1990.3-1999 but I have seen several transmissions over the years that were later date manufacture with earlier parts in them and were factory sealed, so they were likely just using crap off the shelves. With the GVR4, I have seen a few sets of USDM GVR4 1991 gearboxes with early gearsets. Same with JDM GVR4 gearsets I have seen numerous, but they were also manufactured between 1987-1992.

I have seen plenty of 90-91 gearsets with the large diameter needle bearings; it is just unfortunately you don't know what you have by gearbox model number or vin number until its opened up. So it can be a K, L or M transmission model year and still have 89-90 stuff in it. Typically though, M (1991) and later boxes had large diameter bearings on 1/2.

 

[pauleyman]

I'm in the middle of a trans reassembly and I wanted to add to this thread. The manuals all show the dot on the hub towards the clutch side but I've just dissembled two running trans and both had a hub with the dot facing the 5th gear side. I took calipers to them and I've never found any non symmetrical differences to the hubs over the years. Also both 3/4 and 5/r have different angles on the sleeve edges but only the 5/r has any mention of which side is which in my manuals. I have a 97 paper manual for this car and a 92 to 95 trans manual. Neither mention the sleeve angles on 3/4. My new 3/4 also does not have both the 30 and 45 degree but only the 45. The other edge is flat. I put a caliper on the sleeve and found no difference on either sleeve. I'm assmebling with dots toward the clutch and flat side of 3/4 towards the clutch.This at least follows the only marking conventions mentioned in the manuals. Why all the markings if there is no difference? Or is there?
This is all in a 2gb car with evo 1st. I'm retaining the newer larger style 3/4 on this low HP car as I like the larger synchros and I don't want/can't do an evo 3/4.

In other news I also have a 91 gvr4 trans apart and it has the earlier style two tab center diff. I expected the gear pitch to be earlier but not the tab style. I did a 90 trans years ago but wanted double synchro. To get away with it I had a 91 intermediate with the bigger bearings but earlier style 3rd gear pitch. I did it with a gvr4 first also. Again in a low HP car. Fun street gears.
The center diff is a little sloppy so I'm replacing some parts. Case looks very clean and surprisingly not beat up but I don't think I can get any shims for the lower pinion so I may be forced to put in a newer center diff. If that happens I may need to change 3rd and the intermediate. What a pain.

I saw a reference that stated to remove the 1/2 to figure out if you have big bearing and can accept the double cone 2nd or not. No need. The shaft thickness between 3/4 on the intermediate is significantly different on the earlier small bearing types. It's so big you can usually spot it without getting out the calipers. I've seen one 90 shear the shaft in half also.

Hopefully I'lll have this car on the road soon. Been down 2 years with my lazy ass. If anybody has any comments on my 3/4 choice I'm all ears. This is on a 16g or 68hta car. I can't get the HD stuff anyway so I'm just using what I have. I do happen to have a set of evo 3/4 synchros but no gears/hub sleeve to go with them.

 

[NWHTanK]

This might help a bit.

I'm in the middle of a trans reassembly and I wanted to add to this thread. The manuals all show the dot on the hub towards the clutch side but I've just dissembled two running trans and both had a hub with the dot facing the 5th gear side. I took calipers to them and I've never found any non symmetrical differences to the hubs over the years. Also both 3/4 and 5/r have different angles on the sleeve edges but only the 5/r has any mention of which side is which in my manuals. I have a 97 paper manual for this car and a 92 to 95 trans manual. Neither mention the sleeve angles on 3/4. My new 3/4 also does not have both the 30 and 45 degree but only the 45. The other edge is flat. I put a caliper on the sleeve and found no difference on either sleeve. I'm assmebling with dots toward the clutch and flat side of 3/4 towards the clutch.This at least follows the only marking conventions mentioned in the manuals. Why all the markings if there is no difference? Or is there?
This is all in a 2gb car with evo 1st. I'm retaining the newer larger style 3/4 on this low HP car as I like the larger synchros and I don't want/can't do an evo 3/4.

In other news I also have a 91 gvr4 trans apart and it has the earlier style two tab center diff. I expected the gear pitch to be earlier but not the tab style. I did a 90 trans years ago but wanted double synchro. To get away with it I had a 91 intermediate with the bigger bearings but earlier style 3rd gear pitch. I did it with a gvr4 first also. Again in a low HP car. Fun street gears.
The center diff is a little sloppy so I'm replacing some parts. Case looks very clean and surprisingly not beat up but I don't think I can get any shims for the lower pinion so I may be forced to put in a newer center diff. If that happens I may need to change 3rd and the intermediate. What a pain.

I saw a reference that stated to remove the 1/2 to figure out if you have big bearing and can accept the double cone 2nd or not. No need. The shaft thickness between 3/4 on the intermediate is significantly different on the earlier small bearing types. It's so big you can usually spot it without getting out the calipers. I've seen one 90 shear the shaft in half also.

Hopefully I'lll have this car on the road soon. Been down 2 years with my lazy ass. If anybody has any comments on my 3/4 choice I'm all ears. This is on a 16g or 68hta car. I can't get the HD stuff anyway so I'm just using what I have. I do happen to have a set of evo 3/4 synchros but no gears/hub sleeve to go with them.

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