hydrogen supplement?!?!?

[casperfast]

with the ever incresing gas prices i have been doing some research. wouldnt it be cool to have the same high engine performance we run with our engines and still get around 25 mpg? i think so. i get about 15-18 mpg, terrible. and with the price of 92 octane at $4 a gal WTF!~!!!!!!!!! there has to be a better way. i know that a gasoline engine can run off of pure hydrogen if you can supply enough, and i know that en engine will gain average of 15-35% mpg with hydrogen supplement. so can i put hydrogen into my turbo engine via the pcv inlet on my intake pipe? i know the kits take in hydrogen through the pcv intake fitting. how well would this work on our engines? does boost affect this?

 

[Defiant]

Here's the technical answer, couched in scientific terms:
It won't work.

Now you know why no one's doing it.

As for your next question, the one about generation your own hydrogen on-board to feed to the engine: it's about the same as hooking up an alternator to the front wheels to drive a motor on the rears.

The very best, most effective and cheapest way to power a car is to run a gasoline engine in it. And oh, look- that's what everyone is doing. Go figure.

If you're only getting 18 out of yours, something's wrong. I beat the living crap out of my throttle pedal, and get at least twenty. Or, I do when the goddamned Albatross is running.

 

[kewlguy]

messing with hydrogen is pretty risky. chances are one of 3 things will happen:

- it'll react with something before it gets to the combustion chamber (to include the engine itself or the fuel)

- it'll burn before it gets to the combustion chamber or explode as it gets compressed (before the spark due to the heat from the engine itself)


- it'll act like super NOS and make your car run 4 seconds flat


only one way to find out. me personally, i wouldnt do it. but if you're brave enough to try i recommend having the fire dept nearby

 

[casperfast]

well, one of my co-workers does it with his sentra. he puts 7.5 volts onto 2 stainless steel plates in a sealed container, uses 1 galof water every 500 miles. when he starts the car it bubles like a damn alka seltzer. and he runs a tube that draws in his PCV fitting. runs great. it will even run on just hydrogen that way it just isnt enough to go over 3500 rpm while driving. the system draws less than 1 amp and only 7 volts. so i know people ARE doing it. he gets 4 mph on an sr20 sentra. the only question was how boost affects it

 

[68442]

If if you google electrolysis of water you'll find its not that easy. I watched a myth busters where they had a cylinder of h2 and that car wouldn't really run.

If your so sure your friends setup is legit, why not have him set you up?

Just go buy a 35+ mpg DD and enjoy the DSM on the weekends.

 

[wret]

well, one of my co-workers does it with his sentra. he puts 7.5 volts onto 2 stainless steel plates in a sealed container, uses 1 galof water every 500 miles. when he starts the car it bubles like a damn alka seltzer. and he runs a tube that draws in his PCV fitting. runs great. it will even run on just hydrogen that way it just isnt enough to go over 3500 rpm while driving. the system draws less than 1 amp and only 7 volts. so i know people ARE doing it. he gets 4 mph on an sr20 sentra. the only question was how boost affects it

That's kind of cool. Except for the part about it not working.

There are only a couple common fuels with more energy content (slightly) than gasoline; diesel fuel and jet fuel. Liquid Hydrogen has only about 1/4 the energy of gasoline. Your coworker is using perfectly good gasoline to create less-good hydrogen. Granted the fuel used to create the hydrogen is undetectably small, but the energy returned from the process would be undetectably smaller.

 

[casperfast]

That's kind of cool. Except for the part about it not working.

There are only a couple common fuels with more energy content (slightly) than gasoline; diesel fuel and jet fuel. Liquid Hydrogen has only about 1/4 the energy of gasoline. Your coworker is using perfectly good gasoline to create less-good hydrogen. Granted the fuel used to create the hydrogen is undetectably small, but the energy returned from the process would be undetectably smaller.

not working? he gets around 40 mpg on a twin cam engine. i know there's somthing going on there. the water makes hydrogen, the hyrogen with the air and gasoline makes beter fuel millage

 

[Mr Peepers]

You're trying to make a perpetual motion machine. It takes electricity to generate hydrogen through electrolysis; that electricity comes from the alternator, which turns from the engine, which runs off gasoline. You're going through different mediums and losing efficiency along the way.

By the way, electrolysis creates two parts hydrogen and one part oxygen, and when it burns it reforms into water. You aren't netting any more energy.

 

[MrBoxx]

The Sentra is probably a 40-mpg car from the factory. My ex-wife's 95 Corolla got over 35mpg with a dirty air filter and old spark plugs.

 

[wret]

Think about it. You must have had a science class or two at some point. Water is basically burnt hydrogen. It contains no potential energy. It is the byproduct of energy already expended. The energy required to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen is equal to the energy released when they are combined again (minus the energy used in the grossly inefficient separation process).

What's likely going on with your friend is an already efficient car, some placebo effect, and some subconscious rounding up of the milage and rounding down of fuel consumption. People report similar gains with intake tornados and fuel line magnets.

 

[casperfast]

verry interesting. i was just currious how a found a ford motorhome with a 460 v8 in it getting 52 mpg on hydro/gas mix. but whatever

 

[Mr Peepers]

You can find just about anything; the real trick is weeding out the facts from the myths.

There is a fine line between gullible and closed-minded.

 

[DougR]

Sweet! This is a Topic I have been researching for some time now.
Now understand this is pure research and not Any Hands on!

Hydrogen Power is a Real thing! Its saftey thats the concern. There are numerous ways to build a "Hydrogen Generator" Its all about how mutch do you need.... Mutch like out Turbos.
Check out This Guys setups so far I have watched up to vid 71 His videos will show you how to build and use a Hydrogen Generator...
O! by the way the Mythbusters Fuel cell was a JOKE! Its nothing compared to what You can build in your garage! Theres just made a few bubbles of Hydrogen. what others are doing FAR out produce what the Tv show made.

Here is another video this one happens to be a hour long. so grab a beer and chill.
The Tile is "Equinox, It runs on water"
Hydrogen video


Do some Youtube searches on Hydrogen and Fuel milage. You will find that ppl are able to almost Double the MPG with proper setups. While being Perfectly safe!
The best systems I have seen produce Hydrogen Only when the vehical is running, and is tuned to produce only the Required amount. there is NO storage device that holds Hydrogen.
Its simply use what is there. These systems Ramp up the production as more voltage is applied to the Hydrogen Generator Via the alternator.
Also When you turn your key off. the amount of Hydrogen is Small enough not to worrie about...
It will disperse just as gasoline vapors do.



Doug

 

[68442]

The busters I watched had a tank of hydrogen and were pumping it right into the engine, don't remember them making a generator.

 

[Defiant]

You cannot make energy appear out of dissociated water. The energy required to rend the molecules will not be re-captured by trying to use the heat of their recombining.

God, I need to start building this shit with so many gullible, brainless, thought-incapable "customers" out there. It might pay even more than selling these organic Big-Dick pills does.

 

[casperfast]

yea, i get it. i have seen those kits all over for lik 180-600 $$ HAHAHAHA people are really suckers

 

[kewlguy]

Sweet! This is a Topic I have been researching for some time now.
Now understand this is pure research and not Any Hands on!

Hydrogen Power is a Real thing! Its saftey thats the concern. There are numerous ways to build a "Hydrogen Generator" Its all about how mutch do you need.... Mutch like out Turbos.
Check out This Guys setups so far I have watched up to vid 71 His videos will show you how to build and use a Hydrogen Generator...
O! by the way the Mythbusters Fuel cell was a JOKE! Its nothing compared to what You can build in your garage! Theres just made a few bubbles of Hydrogen. what others are doing FAR out produce what the Tv show made.

Here is another video this one happens to be a hour long. so grab a beer and chill.
The Tile is "Equinox, It runs on water"
Hydrogen video


Do some Youtube searches on Hydrogen and Fuel milage. You will find that ppl are able to almost Double the MPG with proper setups. While being Perfectly safe!
The best systems I have seen produce Hydrogen Only when the vehical is running, and is tuned to produce only the Required amount. there is NO storage device that holds Hydrogen.
Its simply use what is there. These systems Ramp up the production as more voltage is applied to the Hydrogen Generator Via the alternator.
Also When you turn your key off. the amount of Hydrogen is Small enough not to worrie about...
It will disperse just as gasoline vapors do.



Doug

1. you cant produce hydrogen only. you're going to have a byproduct of oxygen, or whatever else you're obtaining hydrogen from

2. if you are dealing with hydrogen that is small enough not to worry about, chances are it's not going to produce the kind of power you need. hydrogen is the lightest of all materials which means to get any decent amount of it in there you're going to have to compress it. that itself raises the risk quite a bit. learn from the germans. hydrogen burns pretty f'in fast.

3. you cannot burn only hydrogen. combustion requires oxidizing materials (i.e. oxygen) to burn. that is, unless you are talking about nuclear fusion.

4. the flash point of hydrogen is -423F. unless you are injecting it directly into the combustion chamber, it's probably going to ignite well before it gets there. assuming you inject it into the combustion chamber, you're probably going to be dealing with some serious knock.

 

[wret]

Potential energy is a boulder sitting on top of a hill. Hydrogen is a boulder at the bottom of a hill. Your friend with the electrolysis setup believes he has a way to push the boulder to the top of the hill without paying for it. Others believe that once the boulder is at the top, they can harness the energy of rolling it down and use it to get it back up AND have some left over (see law of conservation of energy).

The allure of hydrogen is that it is the simplest, cleanest fuel available and one of the most abundant elements on the planet. There is no question that it can be used to power an automobile alone or in combination with other fuels. The problem is that pure hydrogen does not exist in nature; not on this planet anyway.

 

[casperfast]

its a stainless steel canister with a vertical sight glass. it hold 3 gal. is insulated with undercoating. the canister is connected to B+ after the power goes through a small digital rheostat. that controls the voltage via the TPS signal. there is also a chemical he adds to the wter, its a powder cant remember the name. there are 6 stainless cylinders inside the canister, they are fused in order top, bottom, top, bottom etc the make then basically a wire. the cylinders are connected to an ignition controlled ground it produces enough hydrogen in 10 seconds at idle to fill a 10 gallon garbage bag, and when you hiw WOT the canister looks like its violently boiling. the thop has a hose fed directly to the pvc fitting on the intake manifold that draws in the gas at idle, at WOT it is forced into the manifold. this works dont be skeptical .i was until i saw it. the system uses less than 3 amps at WOT and 8.5-9v try it.

 

[DougR]

Hey.. Defiant... Chill! You would have given me a warning for something like that.



Anyways, HHO generators are coming on Strong! Expect to see alot of HHO in a variety of powerplants and everyday equipment...

How can anything be better, Then tuning water into fire and back into water. Only to repeat the cycle thousands of times before needing to add more..... Water!
Now Im not saying "Lets all convert to pure water powerplants Right this Second." heck no! let the system fine tune itself some more. And then lets Supplement our current systems with the HHO...
How cool would it be to beable to drive a gas rig around town, then hit the freeway to have it switch over to pure hydrogen and shut down the gas consumption completly while in cruise... That alone would triple gas milage for some ppl. While still maintaining that wicked fast street performance from stoplight to stoplight ( NOT endorsing street racing).

Just dont be close mineded to something as new as this. Hydrogen is the new thing! and we have more of it than man could EVER use.


Doug

 

[68442]

You guys make is sound easy and you appear to know a lot about it. Set it up on your dsm with before and after results. Post pics of your setup also please. Shouldn't take too long to get one of these up and working. Have some logs using dsmlink would be great too. Let us know which of you are going to do it. It'd make a good technical article here.

 

[Defiant]

Goody, more customers.

I know, I'll package it with electric superchargers.

 

[wret]

its a stainless steel canister with a vertical sight glass. it hold 3 gal. is insulated with undercoating. the canister is connected to B+ after the power goes through a small digital rheostat. that controls the voltage via the TPS signal. there is also a chemical he adds to the wter, its a powder cant remember the name. there are 6 stainless cylinders inside the canister, they are fused in order top, bottom, top, bottom etc the make then basically a wire. the cylinders are connected to an ignition controlled ground it produces enough hydrogen in 10 seconds at idle to fill a 10 gallon garbage bag, and when you hiw WOT the canister looks like its violently boiling. the thop has a hose fed directly to the pvc fitting on the intake manifold that draws in the gas at idle, at WOT it is forced into the manifold. this works dont be skeptical .i was until i saw it. the system uses less than 3 amps at WOT and 8.5-9v try it.

It sounds like a neat device. I'm sure I could have all kinds of fun with it (the Myth-Busters tower of burning foam comes to mind), but you can't escape the fact that perfectly good gasoline is being used to produce less-good hydrogen.

So let's pretend your friend is getting +5mpg contribution from the device. Why doesn't he use two and get +10? Why not go all out- load up the back with those things and he probably wouldn't need gas at all.

 

[kewlguy]

there is also a chemical he adds to the wter, its a powder cant remember the name.QUOTE]

that would have to be a salt of some sort. it may not be sodium chloride (table salt) but it is a salt. Pure water cannot conduct electricity. that's why you have to add it. that enables the electricity to separate the hydrogen and oxygen

 

[Morphius]

It sounds like a neat device. I'm sure I could have all kinds of fun with it (the Myth-Busters tower of burning foam comes to mind), but you can't escape the fact that perfectly good gasoline is being used to produce less-good hydrogen.

So let's pretend your friend is getting +5mpg contribution from the device. Why doesn't he use two and get +10? Why not go all out- load up the back with those things and he probably wouldn't need gas at all.

You need to think ouside the box on this. A solar panel can provide power for the conversion, collected freely. No power robbing from the vehicles power plant.


And yes, power can be collected on cloudy days too.


Believe.