How to replace Rod bearings? copper pieces in my oil pan *PICS*

[CorrupTTalon]

i have play in my bottom end at the rod, here:

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My forth cylinder is worse than the rest, meaning it has more play.. like 1/8th of and inch play where the others only have a 16th.. thats not accurate just to give you an idea, could this be causing the knock i get at 2k+ RPM? and loss of power of course.. my timing is correct, i dont think its my valves hitting my pistons... eek. and it idles and starts beautiful.. and when i was getting it home after this happend i was babying the crap out of it and it drove fine under 2k RPM. i never went over 1.5kRPM..


here is what i found in my oil pan:

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they are copper which lead me to believe they were turbo bearings. but im not blowing smoke constantly. what other bearings in my engine would be copper like that? or could my turbo be causing this internal knock? and loss of power when not producing enough boost?

im lost!

some facts about the car:

BS removed
new timing belt, crank and cams lined up anyways
new T25 less than 400 miles on it
new oil pump
new water pump
oil pressure was normal

EDIT:

how do i replace these bearings? do i have to remove the head? or can i pull it all out from the bottom end?

 

[Quasimondo]

If I were you, I'd disassemble the engine completely. We could speculate all day about where those shavings are coming from, but with that much in the pan, I have doubts that it could be from the turbo, and there are many other places that in the engine that will leave a healthy pile of shavings like that.

Pull the engine apart, check the bearing surfaces on the crankshaft and connecting rods. With as much play in the rods as you've shown, you've pretty much answered your own question about where the metal shavings are coming from. The only question is how bad the crankshaft is damaged, and if you're better off rebuilding that block, finding a replacement engine, or going through with a six-bolt swap.

 

[CorrupTTalon]

thanks for the reply

is it possible to pull the crank off from the bottom with the block attached to the car? if so will the pistions come out as well? and is this ok? ive done almost everything except pull apart a bottom end.. doesnt look too complicated but i would just like to know the details! ya know?

 

[Littlebeeper]

just did the rod bearings in mine. its also a 7-bolt. i had never done this deep of work either but it wasn't that hard. i didn't remove the crank though. take out the caps to the rod bearings and see how bad the crank is but i don't think it got away with no damage with that much play. almost jumped in like a rookie and yelled "CW" but the #4 rodbearing is out not the crank bearing. good thing i payed attention huh let us know if you need more pointers.

 

[CorrupTTalon]

hey littlebeeper, i would appreciate it if you stuck close to this thread!! haha look what i just found out, #4

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[realitytb]

just take off the caps, then you can kinda pry the crank away from the top bearings a little, then use a screw driver to push the top bearings out. it can get frustrating at times... but make sure you GREASE the new ones going in...

 

[CorrupTTalon]

do the notches on the bearings fit into the notches on the rod and rod end? are they there to lock the bearings into position to stop them from spinning?

will lithium grease work? what kind of grease is best? vaseline? eek

 

[gurrmanator]

do the notches on the bearings fit into the notches on the rod and rod end? are they there to lock the bearings into position to stop them from spinning?

will lithium grease work? what kind of grease is best? vaseline? eek

WHOA...STOP RITE THERE....you are wasting time and money,if you just put rod bearings in you will be rite back where you are now in a short amount of time.By the looks of that bearing #4 journal on the crank is toast.you need to grind that crank(.10 or .20).when you grind a crank you have to get different size bearings then you have to re-size the rods then you have to center your thrust bearing.this is no weekend job,you basicly have to rebuild...just trying to save you alot of heartache

 

[blaise2gst]

so basically he's rebuilding or buying a 6 bolt? that suck's.. Would it be worth it to rebuild it.. I don't know what is so bad except for the crank issue wich every one say's is overated.. Also it has more h.p than a six bolt.. I am a rookie so this is just my begginer thought's..

 

[CorrupTTalon]

WHOA...STOP RITE THERE....you are wasting time and money,if you just put rod bearings in you will be rite back where you are now in a short amount of time.By the looks of that bearing #4 journal on the crank is toast.you need to grind that crank(.10 or .20).when you grind a crank you have to get different size bearings then you have to re-size the rods then you have to center your thrust bearing.this is no weekend job,you basicly have to rebuild...just trying to save you alot of heartache

i hear you man, thanks for the concern!

but i never replaced these bearings before.. i dont remember saying i ever did i didnt drive it long after it spun, so i think ill be ok for a while, but im rebuilding the crap out of this block this winter! thanks again, and could you help me with putting them in? the questions about the notches?

 

[CorrupTTalon]

so basically he's rebuilding or buying a 6 bolt? that suck's.. Would it be worth it to rebuild it.. I don't know what is so bad except for the crank issue wich every one say's is overated.. Also it has more h.p than a six bolt.. I am a rookie so this is just my begginer thought's..

i have no idea where you two are getting all of this false information....

 

[gurrmanator]

what false information????you have a spun bearing...the damage was done before you heard it no matter if you drove it 1 mile or ten miles.you only have half a bearing and if you do this half-ass repair your motor wont last a month.there is a reason why that bearing spun and now you have all this bearing material inside your motor.its a long way till winter....good luck and will see you on the tow truck.


p.s.the notches go together :

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Never grind a DSM crank. Replace it.

 

[gurrmanator]

why not grind a dsm crank?mine seems to be working fine.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

DSM cranks are <a href="http://www.key-to-steel.com/Articles/Art117.htm" target="new">nitrided</a>. Its a hardening process. If you grind aka turn it, you will remove the hard outer coating of the metal that has the added strenght. Then it will really be unreliable and increased chances for failure are there.

 

[ivanr4g63]

Never grind a DSM crank. Replace it.

Amen to that.

Technically its possible to re-use a grinded crank, but it wont last you that long, also if you're planing on putting decent power to it thats another reason why go with standard bore on the crank.

 

[CorrupTTalon]

what false information????you have a spun bearing...the damage was done before you heard it no matter if you drove it 1 mile or ten miles.you only have half a bearing and if you do this half-ass repair your motor wont last a month.there is a reason why that bearing spun and now you have all this bearing material inside your motor.its a long way till winter....good luck and will see you on the tow truck.


p.s.the notches go together :

the guy below you had false info and i thought you thought i had installed them before.. sorry just miss read what you first wrote!

what would cause this? i had bought it from a guy last summer that i believe ragged the crap out of it! i have barely driven it.. and have been replacing parts more than driving.

4 and 3 had broken top bearings and 4 was spun. 1 and 2 were perfect.. what would this tell me? can improper belt tensioning cause problems like this? like putting too much stress on the crank or components? i have a new oil pump and the car never overheated..

also do the notches match up on the same side, top and bottom? like so:

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or on oppossite sides like so:

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and do those notches on the bearings fit into the corrosponding notch on the rod cap and rod?

sorry i should have payed attention when taking them off but the first ones fell off and the others did the same. i didnt have a chance to take notes of those things

 

[wolf20043]

thanks for the reply

is it possible to pull the crank off from the bottom with the block attached to the car? if so will the pistions come out as well? and is this ok? ive done almost everything except pull apart a bottom end.. doesnt look too complicated but i would just like to know the details! ya know?

you have to have the engine out of the car to take out the crank.The whole clutch assembly is connected to it so you have no choice.After a time of 2 it become very easy
Mike

 

[wolf20043]

and I agree....get rid of the crank and get a new one.If I only had the pics on here of julias bearings after a bad crank.
Mike

 

[CorrupTTalon]

if i decide to pull the crank can i replace the rings with stock new ones can i do it without honing or doing any machine work to the block?

 

[blaise2gst]

i have no idea where you two are getting all of this false information....

What do you mean false info half the stuff i said was a ?.. If you mean a 2g doesn't have more stock h.p than a 1g then maybe im wrong.. im just curious cause i'm thinking of rebuilding my 7 bolt 2g and most people prefer 6 bolt's.. why is that?

 

[blaise2gst]

n.m i think i know what you mean now.. for some reason i thought someone said put a six bolt in it.

 

[gurrmanator]

the guy below you had false info and i thought you thought i had installed them before.. sorry just miss read what you first wrote!

what would cause this? i had bought it from a guy last summer that i believe ragged the crap out of it! i have barely driven it.. and have been replacing parts more than driving.

4 and 3 had broken top bearings and 4 was spun. 1 and 2 were perfect.. what would this tell me? can improper belt tensioning cause problems like this? like putting too much stress on the crank or components? i have a new oil pump and the car never overheated..

also do the notches match up on the same side, top and bottom? like so:

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or on oppossite sides like so:

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and do those notches on the bearings fit into the corrosponding notch on the rod cap and rod?

sorry i should have payed attention when taking them off but the first ones fell off and the others did the same. i didnt have a chance to take notes of those things

your bearing spun because of too much clearance(how many miles on motor?)which causes low oil pressure.oil pressure is what keeps the bearings locked in place(all of your bearing).your whole problem is clearance issues on the motor and by the looks of thoes bearings that motor was rode hard.if you re-ring you have to hone or the rings will never seat and you will burn oil and have no compression.if you have too much clearance on the cylinders walls and you re-ring it you will get piston slap.If you mixed up the rod caps you just opened another can of worms,the rods and caps are a matched set you cant put #4 cap on rod #2.you better hope you remember which cap went where otherwise your rebuild cost just went up.your first picture is correct(notches)of this post.I dont know how to break it to you gently,take the motor and have it rebuilt.

 

[CorrupTTalon]

your bearing spun because of too much clearance(how many miles on motor?)which causes low oil pressure.oil pressure is what keeps the bearings locked in place(all of your bearing).your whole problem is clearance issues on the motor and by the looks of thoes bearings that motor was rode hard.if you re-ring you have to hone or the rings will never seat and you will burn oil and have no compression.if you have too much clearance on the cylinders walls and you re-ring it you will get piston slap.If you mixed up the rod caps you just opened another can of worms,the rods and caps are a matched set you cant put #4 cap on rod #2.you better hope you remember which cap went where otherwise your rebuild cost just went up.your first picture is correct(notches)of this post.I dont know how to break it to you gently,take the motor and have it rebuilt.

there are only 75k miles on the motor, atleast thats what the guage reads, who knows..
ill leave the re-ringing up to when i rebuild it.. so i can get it honed and .20 or something.
are cranks super expensive?

and i didnt mix the rod caps up! no way i knew to keep those to their origional rod as they wear together and will only fit to its origional rod! i do forget what was the front of the cap and what was the rear of the cap. meaning which end faced the front of the engine and which faces the rear of the engine(or rear of the car) on one end there is a Y and the other looks like a 6 or a G, which one faced the front?

and i never rode it hard, ive been babyn' this things and fixing it.. im so pissed at the previous owner!

ANYONE HAVE A GOOD CRANK THEY WANT TO SELL ME? 4G63 1997?

 

[gurrmanator]

if the rods are still in the block just line the notches up that will tell you front or back.both notches go together on one side of the rod.when you hone all you are doing is taking the glaze off the cylinder walls you cant bore with honing stones,they are too fine of a grit. you are only allowed .002 of clearance between piston and cylinder,mine was .004 and i had to bore.I dont know what a crank cost but try this....car-parts.com