how to get around excessive timing b/c of SAFC settings?

[terminaltsi]

ok, so i think i've run into the problem of having too much timing becuase i've pulled out so much fuel on the safc (about 40%) on hi from 4k to 7k. i'm still trying to get the base tuning set up on 14 psi boost on the PTE 50 trim, so i'm not running muc hboost. how can i get around this? just lower base timing? or run a smaller injector? i'm using PTe 650's right now. would 550s work at less than say 20 psi on pump gas with this turbo and all supporting mods? then i wouldn't have to pull so much out with the SAFC.

 

[Staytuned]

You have the 1G Maf right? have you pulled out the lower honey comb to sneek some extra air in there? Makes for less correction on the AFC.

 

[Nos~4G63]

Get an Eprom ECU. Match the eprom to your injectors.

dsmchips.com

 

[terminaltsi]

You have the 1G Maf right? have you pulled out the lower honey comb to sneek some extra air in there? Makes for less correction on the AFC.

oh yeah, it's hacked.
so the eprom ecu is the only way? how do i keep hearing of so many people running well with nothing more than an afc then? what are they doing that i'm not? in the days before the keydiver chips and everything the afc was the only way, so what happened?
what about 550's ?

 

[Staytuned]

Yes you could go smaller like 550's but they are no good if you crank the boost up like you are going to right. For now they would work ...but the future switch back.

 

[Nos~4G63]

More octane. A local sunoco here sells 110 out the pump and is the only gas I run in my car. Would be a bit too expensive for a daily driver though at $3.90 a gallon.

Also water or alky injection will suppress detonation and allow you to run the higher timing.

 

[CanadianTSi]

The simple solution would be to run more boost so you don't have to take out so much fuel

 

[Staytuned]

Yes but it is nice and safe to tune low and work your way up. Like Paul did.

 

[terminaltsi]

actually i was thinking about just adding more boost so that i wouldn't have to take so much out. 1 bar boost is nothing, esp. with 650s, it's almost too little.
on my log today, i noticed that when i lifted throttle between shifts, my knock went up...what's that about?
also noticed that the car runs really well some days, and then with no changes to anything, like crap on others. it's like it just went untuned again. even during a day of driving, it will pull hard on one occasion but then later it won't, sputtering and cutting out.
during my reading on here today, some people said that with 650's getting them to be consistent can be a btich, any truth behind that?

 

[CanadianTSi]

I run 650's with my 16g, I just set it at 20psi and went from there...took like 10 mins to tune. Easy as Pie

 

[paul s]

^^^^you mean it took me 10 min to tune.. ....if you have the 50trim run 20psi on pump gas and you will be fine, adjust the s-afc in the -32%(upper settings 650s)..

 

[lowridin2g]

im running 22 psi on a 50 trim with 650's and a base fuel pressure of 43 psi on 93 octane. im getting .96 o2 voltages with 18-19 deg advance by redline. if u turn up the boost you will get less timing advance.

honestly i think its more of getting gas at different places that messes with everyones tunes, that and weather.

 

[AWDream]

have you tried turning down the fuel pressure and adding signal into the afc? (ie- add fuel in to the car using that) this way, the signal to the MAS is higher, which will reduce your timing.

 

[djpast]

best way = get a chipped ECU that has fuel map corrections on it.
good way= get an AFPR and lower your base fuel pressure.
ok way... crank down your base timing via the CAS.

 

[PaleDSM]

Adjustable fuel pressure regulator. They are for more than just keeping your pressure overrun at bay because of a large pump.

 

[1LE]

im running 22 psi on a 50 trim with 650's and a base fuel pressure of 43 psi on 93 octane. im getting .96 o2 voltages with 18-19 deg advance by redline. if u turn up the boost you will get less timing advance.

How much boost before you start getting less timing. I get the same at both low (8.5psi) and high (13.5psi) settings on my car (21 degrees by 6k, and 27 degrees at stock redline, holds there to my 8k limiter)...

 

[djpast]

How much boost before you start getting less timing. I get the same at both low (8.5psi) and high (13.5psi) settings on my car (21 degrees by 6k, and 27 degrees at stock redline, holds there to my 8k limiter)...

you start getting less timing with knock or when you start flowing more air thru the MAF... but high boost with high timing on pump = BAD. you are still running close to stock it looks like, so those timing numbers look about right. once you start going with bigger turbos and more fuel and higher boost, those numbers will definately change.

making power is all about correct parts of timing and boost and lack knock, finding that common ground....

every car is different. for instance.... some people tune for absolutely no knock whatsoever.... some people tune for for some knock. its just a matter of how close to that edge you want to come....

for example hypothetically...

lets say i have x turbo and run 20 psi and tune for no knock, my overall timing 20* or so... and i make 300 hp and have an A/F ratio of 10:1.

i take that same car, retune it at 24psi, hit like 6 counts of knock and get 2* of timing retard for an overall timing of 18* and an A/F ratio of 11.5:1. But i make 340hp. Am i still in the safety zone? yes. but I increase the chance of something bad happening, as with any mod. Is it worth the extra power... In my opinion yes. In others... no.

like i said hypothetically.

Too much timing is bad...
Too much fuel is bad...
Too much boost is bad....
Too much knock is REALLY bad....

its all about finding that good spot.

sorry went off on a tangent there.

 

[power=dsm]

well said