How much hp with 550's

[Freddy]

Yeah I put new rings and bearings, the same performance brand as all my other internals. I will definatly be getting a good clutch too. What would you estimate 1/4 mile with all these mods and a 100 shot? I don't know if I can bring my self to spray a 200, if I do this project with the head and everything I won't have the money to build my engine again for a while! I've also been told that a ported head turns a 75 shot into a 100 and so on, is there any truth to this? If so I might try jetting it for a 100 and see how fast I can drag a 1/4, then work from there.

Thanks for the advice

 

[larryd]

100 shot is 100 shot regardless of whats done to the head. 100 shot on your car would be the same as 100 shot on my car.. mind you 100 shot is different from company to company as NX is rated at the wheels and NOS is rated at the flywheel.

 

[bp97tsi]

Originally posted by Freddy
The problem is that I can't get race gas were I live, I can when I take it to the strip(150 miles away), but not all the time. I can get 112 aviation fuel here, but I've heard since it's leaded it's really hard on new cars if you use it a lot. What do you think? And are there any other thoughts on the 200 shot of nitrous? Could my engine really handle that?

Thanks

Dont know too many people using aviation fuel. I've heard of people using it before, but i'm not sure. Do you have aftermarket race valves in your head? If so you shouldnt have any problem running leaded race gas. The only thing it will cause to go bad after while is the o2 sensors. Lead deposits will build up on them & cause them to go bad. I had a 98 talon n/t before my talon now & i sprayed a 100 shot NX on it for a long time. It had 80,000 mi on it before it spun a rod bearing. Did i mention it was on the stock bottom end. & like larryd said, NX rates their kits at the wheels so it was actually like a 150 shot. So with NX you would only have to spray a 150 shot on it to actually make 200hp at the crank. I dont see why it wouldnt hold it. Spraying that much on a 4cyl, you might want to call & talk to NX about your setup & talk to them about their progressive controller to kinda cushion the instant power increase. Oh i remembered what i was gonna tell you earlier. Team Phatridz Dodge Neon last year ran a 2.4 dodge minivan motor in their race car all season long & then some. I saw this car in person & talked to them about it. Its a 2.4 dodge DOHC 16v motor, stock block, stock crank, forged rods & pistons, head fully worked, 11:1 comp. (dont ask me how), garrett T78 turbo & 2 stages of nitrous. Spearco air to water intercooler & it runs on alcohol. I think it ran a best of 9.07 in the 1/4. I cant imagine.

 

[Freddy]

I do have race valves in my head, so I'm seriusly considering running aviation fuel a good part of the time and just plan on replacing O2 sensors once in a while. How long do you think they will last under fairly fequent use of leaded gas? I have a Zex system right now and I'm not sure if it is rated at the wheels of the crank so I will look into that. That's very interesting about the Dodge 2.4L. That remindes me of the Car and Driver article about the new Dodge Neon turbo, it has a 2.4L and the article said that the turbo it uses is made by Mitsubishi, Hmmm....

Thanks

 

[bp97tsi]

Originally posted by Freddy
I do have race valves in my head, so I'm seriusly considering running aviation fuel a good part of the time and just plan on replacing O2 sensors once in a while. How long do you think they will last under fairly fequent use of leaded gas? I have a Zex system right now and I'm not sure if it is rated at the wheels of the crank so I will look into that. That's very interesting about the Dodge 2.4L. That remindes me of the Car and Driver article about the new Dodge Neon turbo, it has a 2.4L and the article said that the turbo it uses is made by Mitsubishi, Hmmm....

Thanks

The o2's will last a while. Really hard to judge. Everything is diff even though its the same part used on other cars. Every car is diff. If you plan on makin some serious power you need to get rid of that zex kit. You can only jet it to like 75 or 125 shot. Think about this too. If that control box goes out, no nitrous. Thats your solinoid & everything & i'll bet it aint cheap. Thats probably what cost the most in the intire kit. NX is the mack daddy. You need the NX stage 1 EFI kit & upgrade the nozzle to i think its the pirana nozzle. The soliniods are good for 400 shot & that nozzle is good for 250-300 i think. Thats the same kit i had on my N/T talon. I called & talked to the guys at NX & thats what they told me about that kit. It comes with the shark nozzle, but its only good to 200 shot i think. Need to upgrade if your gonna spray 200-250. You could probably use the shark nozzle, but the other 1 will atomize the fuel & nitrous better.

 

[Freddy]

Your right about the Zex kit. Even using it for small shots I havn't been very impressed with it. I want to get my head work done first, then once I have some more money by a better kit. Maybe I can find somebody that will buy my Zex kit. How expensive is the NX stage 1 EFI kit? Will I'm picking your brain, How long will a 10 lb bottle last using 200 shots? It would probably be worth investing in a 20 lb?

Thanks for all the help

 

[bp97tsi]

Originally posted by Freddy
Your right about the Zex kit. Even using it for small shots I havn't been very impressed with it. I want to get my head work done first, then once I have some more money by a better kit. Maybe I can find somebody that will buy my Zex kit. How expensive is the NX stage 1 EFI kit? Will I'm picking your brain, How long will a 10 lb bottle last using 200 shots? It would probably be worth investing in a 20 lb?

Thanks for all the help

I bought my NX kit from www.racenet.net. They are the main distributer for NX in TX. Mine was $507.50 included shipping. My 10lb bottle lasted about 8-10 races jetted at 100 shot, so yeah a bigger bottle would help spraying that much. You can upgrade to a 15lb bottle. NX has a lifetime garantee on their soliniods too.

 

[nine5raptor]

double the nitrous, half the bottle life...

 

[Freddy]

So if I went with a wet system like the one your recomending, it would eliminate the need for bigger injectors and a fuel computer. That would save me a lot of money, but now the question becomes will my injectors support my head modifications? Say I have close to 200 hp right now, or less, the site I have been looking at says 85-100 hp for the stage 3 head job, but say I get 50. With the cam and some other misc. stuff I should be somewere in the vicinity of 250 hp, right? Will my stock injectors support that?

 

[nine5raptor]

i would go with 450s from a turbo model. they can be had cheap, but to run larger injectors, you will need a fuel computer.

 

[bp97tsi]

Youre doing this with a 97 eclipse n/t spyder right? Mitsubishi 2.0 sohc?

 

[Freddy]

It's a 97' Eclipse n/t Spyder, but it's a Mitsubishi 2.4L SOHC.

 

[bp97tsi]

Originally posted by Freddy
So if I went with a wet system like the one your recomending, it would eliminate the need for bigger injectors and a fuel computer. That would save me a lot of money, but now the question becomes will my injectors support my head modifications? Say I have close to 200 hp right now, or less, the site I have been looking at says 85-100 hp for the stage 3 head job, but say I get 50. With the cam and some other misc. stuff I should be somewere in the vicinity of 250 hp, right? Will my stock injectors support that?

I dont know that much about the fuel system on the 2.4 sohc motor, I would say that the stock fuel pump & injectors would support 200hp. Now for the nitrous, you need to put a bigger fuel pump in it & a pressure reg. The injectors will not have any part in the nitrous. The nitrous system will get the extra fuel it needs from the fuel rail test port. And that will come directly from the fuel pump.

 

[Silent2g]

put a 300 shot on it, dyno it once
and prove em wrong
then start crying when the tow truck carries your car away...

 

[nine5raptor]

hahaha

 

[Freddy]

Ok next question. I think with the head porting, intake man. and other stuff I'm planning on, it will begging for higher RPM's. The bottom end is all forged and if I build the head with all race parts how high do you think I could safely rap it? stock it reds at 6000, I'm a little worried about the longer stroke of the 2.4L. What do you think?

Thanks

 

[bp97tsi]

As long as you put good stuff in it & the machine work was done right, I wouldnt hesitate to turn it past 8000. I tell everybody i know that gets a motor built that the motor is as good as the machine work. If its done right, you get a good motor. If not you get a shitty motor. Now on the bottle I wouldnt turn it quite as hard, but if you race for money like i do, ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. I always wait & shift after the other person shifts. Just a little trick i used to have up my sleeve.

 

[Freddy]

I didn't have any machine work done to the cylinders(they were in excelent condition), I just honed them so the new rings would seat, but I left the stock bore. The factory machine work should be as good as any, right? I think I will send my head to Flatlander racing, all though I have never had them do any machine work before, they are a company I am coming to trust.

 

[bp97tsi]

well if it were mine i probably would have had it bored .20 over w/ a torque plate. Just b/c its still factory doesnt mean its good, it'll do i guess. Just ask around & talk to people who have used them & see what they had done or ask them what kind of job they did on thier stuff. What does this shop specialize in? Drag motors, circle track motors or something else. I prefer a machine shop that specializes in circle track motors.

 

[Freddy]

I would have had it bored too, but in the small town I live in there literally isn't a machine shop. Any machine work I have done requires the part to shipped somewere, and I really didn't want to spend the time or money to ship my block to a machine shop. Flatlander is a large internet based buiseness that does anything you could ever want done. I got all my internals from them for great prices and they were really good to work with. I also have been asking lots of dumb questions about their head porting, and they're really helpful.
On tuesday I checked out the non turbo forum for the first time and saw a thread on turboing the 2.4L! I didn't realize it was possible, but there is a link to a site all about turboing the 2.4L! It looks like my crusade to run 12's with a N/A 4 cylinder has come to an end. I got a parts list from the site and I'm in the process of pricing a turbo install for my car. I think I'll continue with everything else I was going to do, but also throw a 16G into the mix! I'm very excited.

 

[spoolup]

Just out of curiosity, it is REALLY expensive, not to mention, built on very tight tolerances(minimal error will equal big consiquenses) but magnus has the 2.4 built bottom with custom crank that will bolt to a 2.0 DOHC. there for since the ex manni bolts to the head, you can go with all the setups of us turbo guys (girls too). If you have the money to play with why not use it to be different. at 4000 ft elevation, things tend to act differntly. The track in my town sits at 3982 ft. and I know that your at a higher elevation than that, be prepared. read up, and check into the dsm forums at higher elevation. people laugh at a nice setup, with FP green and excellent knowlegde of tuning with the use of DSM link. Yet they run only 11.8 but you hear that they do that at 3982 ft. you have to give them their props.

the thinner the air the harder it is for you to breathe, now think about how hard it is for you car to take a 400-500hp breath.

 

[Freddy]

Your right, I'm over 6,000 ft. I'm sure that will greatly affect my tuning. The Strip I go to though is around 3,000 I think, but I know it's a lot lower then were I live. So I'll probably have to do a lot of adjusting before I go to the drag strip. Will I have to retard ingnition to run the turbo on a naturally aspirated engine? Also How much pressure do you think I can run on 9.5 compression?

Thanks

 

[Freddy]

The only good thing that I forgot to mention though, is the higher the elevation the greater the resistance to detination. You have to work with what you have.

 

[DSMJim]

A lot of the problem with nitrous isn't so much how much you run but the pressure when it comes on initially. It tends to cause ring lands to drop and pistons to melt bend rods etc because it's soooo much HP comming on so quickly. You can do what your talking about but you will need a few things.

First get an ignition system because nitrous loves to blow out the spark of a stock ignition system.

Second make absolutly sure you are going direct port. I would tell you to buy the NXL kit that comes with the integrated fuel rail and goes infront of the injectors. It's super easy to hook up and will give you safe reliable results. Plus you don't need to pull your intake mani to drill it etc etc... Here is a pic from NX.

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Just have to make sure they make it for our cars first. If they don't get the regular direct port it, it's just as good but a little harder to hook up.

Third get yourself a NX Maximizer. It's a progressive nitrous controller. This is what is going to save your motor and help with wheel spin. It allows you to put in jets for a 250hp shot and it will controll it down to whatever you want. You can program 100hp in first 150hp in second, 200hp in third and 3 second through 3rd bumpt to 225hp then 3 second after that got 250hp or you can stay at 225hp or whatever. It pulses the solenoids to control how much nitrous/fuel you get. It's works like a charm and will keep all the nitrous from hitting at once. Kinda like your own 5 stage nitrous setup or whatever you want. It's totally adjustable however you want and will give you limitless adjustability.

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If you plan on running 112 av fuel, just make sure you pull your cat off as that's pretty well all it will ruin (that and our environment) it won't do damage to your motor as your not running it that oftin it will however plug up your cat.

 

[Freddy]

Hey, thanks for the advice. I really like the sound of that kit. How expensive are NX maiximizers? I was planning on getting a nitrous controller of some kind, but the ones I've looked at are very expensive. I've already removed my cat(I guess I'm already ruining are enviroment) so I should be OK with av fuel.

Thanks