How much HP can my stock RS engine handle?

[lo eclipz]

So you are telling me that the builder of my engine who has done this for years has no idea of what he is talking about and you do. Just because you with your car plan on 300 hp with pistons and a turbo, doesnt mean i cant do 300 hp with a complete race built engine, you get realistic. And, i am doing the 8.8:1 .20" over pistons because after i go all motor and have the fastest one, i plan on going turbo and nos. So i sacrifice a little power no for the plan of turbo later.

 

[lo eclipz]

and also from your knowledge of my motor and since my builder doesn't know anything, where will this put me in hp, if not anywhere near 310hp. I really want to hear this.

 

[420aVenger]

Well since you have about 115WHP stock then I'd say w/ all the stuff you listed MAYBE 180-190WHP. If you are lucky. Believe what you want but I just don't want you to be pissed and dissapointed when you dyno your car. When you do get it on video. If you are anywhere near 300HP NA then I'll drive to your house and let you beat my car w/ a sledge hammer. You engine guy is full of it. Just wait...you'll see.

 

[420aVenger]

BTW did your engine guy tell you he was going to bore your engine out TWO TENTHS try .020"


And not to beat a dead horse but to put it into perspective. Have you heard of the Grand Touring Stratus'? Well they were all motor 420a's. They were completely built w/ somewhere around 14:1 compression, individual throttle bodies and super high redline. It made 300HP. Now your builder may be good but come on. I'm not trying to be a dick but I don't want people on here thinking you can easily get 300+WHP out of an NA 420a.

 

[lo eclipz]

from his experience since he builds and races these engines, he knows what he is doing, he says almost for sure it will dyno at above 300 hp. 65 hp for a complete race spec engine, i think you are a little off. I wouldn't jump to that bet if you like your car, without knowing all of our info. How about you can appreciate a possible good engine build, but not so much bashing. In a week or so i'll get the car and scan the dyno sheet and then after the track i'll scan my slip. But really that much build is gonna yield only a 65 hp gain, a little off.

 

[lo eclipz]

sorry thats a typo on my part i forgot the extra number, so it was supposed to be typed as .020" or 5mm bore.

 

[lo eclipz]

and with your custom turbo setup how much power do you have now and what mods, fastest track time.

 

[420aVenger]

I haven't dynoed or went to the track. Right now I have a busted ring landing I think so I'll be putting in my new motor in a few weeks.
Then w/ it I plan to run 18-20 psi once I get all of the fuel and timing worked out.

 

[curtis_rak]

I have to agree with lo_eclipz, only 65 WHP with all of his internal mods is WAY low for an estimate.

420aAvenger:
What turbo kit are you running that you can hit 18-20 psi of boost?...that is a ton, most 4g63's don't even run that high of boost.

 

[lo eclipz]

at least curtis has common sense unlike some other people around here, thanks

 

[420aVenger]

I have a t3/t4 turbo. I don't have a production kit.

at least curtis has common sense unlike some other people around here, thanks

We'll see.

 

[lo eclipz]

It will be nice once you get your engine up and running and hopefully run 300 whp with turbo. And it will be nice if i can run 300whp with my all motor, i am putting my opinion if you do your research and say you can probaly get the hp you say you can, put your confidence in me and back me when i say i will probaly be around the 300 mark as well, we are all on the same side

 

[curtis_rak]

420aAvenger:

WTF??
Can't I ask what your set up is? I have a goal for my car and I want to learn something..."We'll See"...I don't get it?

 

[420aVenger]

Ok. I really hope you do get 300HP. I'm just trying to tell you that I don't think you will and you imply that I have no common sense. Seriously get a dyno and show me and I will praise you and your mechanic. But if you get like 200HP then I expect you to admit that I do have common sence Anyways good luck and keep us informed.

 

[420aVenger]

Ok Curtis. I'm sorry but apparantly you misread my post. When you asked what kit I had I assumed that you meant HRC, Star, NER. I put mine together myself that's why I said I don't have a kit. If you have any questions about it then feel free to e-mail me and I'll try my best to answer all of your questions Now for the "we'll see" comment. It was implied that I had no common sence because I said I didn't think he could get 300WHP. I said "we'll see" because, well...we will see when he gets it done.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

It doesn't matter if you are building a "race" motor. Forged internals do not increase power they are able to hold power. The only thing that will give you HP out of your "race" motor is the lightned crank and headwork. 8:8 compression will never give you 300HP all motor that's lower than stock compression. Your engine builder is an idiot. I don't know how much your paying for this motor but I guarentee it will not Dyno over 300HP at the wheels.

 

[curtis_rak]

Interesting.

My plan for next summer is to hopefully get a rebuild on my engine with forged internals, a turbo-ready cam grind (undecided on Crane or Crower), ported/polished head, and an aftermarket intake manifold of some kind (undecided). Plus all applicable bolt ons (CAI, cam gears, pulleys, prothane mounts, header/downpipe/catback, S-AFC, injectors (maybe 550's), and the walbro pump.

I want to have my setup completely ready for a turbo, not just the 9 psi bolt on kit, but a Star Stage 2, hopefully, running at LEAST 15 lbs of boost.

The goal is to build a really strong 420a BEFORE turboing, just because I've heard stories about bolt ons going terribly wrong.

 

[Ludachris]

Exactly who is this motor-builder, what's his name? shop's name? URL to his website? what races has he entered? what circuit? what cars is he responsible for building motors for other than his own? and have you talked with his previous customer base to verify that this has been done before on someone else's car?

Those are just a few questions that I'd ask. If he can get 375hp out of a 420A without forced induction, I'd definitely like to learn more about him. Unless he's got a huge reputation, I'd be careful. I hope you know him personally, or at least his background because those are some bold claims. I don't know enough about the 420A to call it impossible, but you don't see a 300+ hp N/T everyday.

 

[GettinHUGE]

420aVenger, since you have a custom set-up I was wondering if you would care to go into detail about what you got here. I'm sure a lot of the guys here (especially myself) would be interested in what all you did to your engine and what components you bought to go with it and what other components you plan on adding to it to get it all running right.

I'm thinking about going down the custom road myself but would like to hear from someone else who has done it first.

 

[420aVenger]

First you need to get a manifold made. There is a member of www.asog.net that makes very fairly priced custom manifolds. His name is Alain and this is his e-mail address. [email protected] That is the most difficult part of a custom kit. You can have him make you one so that part is out of the way. I'll just make a list of the rest of the stuff and if can remember how much and where I got it.

Manifold- $250 + $25 for EGT tap- [email protected]

Exhaust manifold gasket- $15???- dealer (I re-used mine)

Turbo to manifold gasket- $8- http://www.roadraceengineering.com/flangesandgaskets.htm

t3/t4 turbo- $300- www.ebay.com

1G SMIC- $50- used from www.dsmtrader.com

4-90* mandral bends- $40- http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=14721&BQ=jcw2

Clamps and Radiator hose (IC couplers)- guessing $40- www.napaonline.com

I used my short ram intake to make a CAI for the turbo

Turbo XS RFL BOV- $125- www.dsmtrader.com www.turboxs.com

Catch can- $45- www.jegs.com

Several feet of fuel hose (vacuum lines)- $1/foot- Autozone

Vortech SFMU- $255- http://re-racing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RE&Category_Code=10673

15' Aluminum fuel line + -6AN female to flare fitting- $30- www.jegs.com

Several -4AN and -6AN fittings and braided SS line for the rail to SFMU connection- around $40-50 depending on configuration and placement- www.jegs.com

Missing Link- $55- http://www.group5motorsport.com/cgi-bin/GRPstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=SE-MissingLink

Battery relocation kit (not absolute but frees up TONS of room)- $45- www.summitracing.com

Assortment of AN fittings and SS braided line for the oil feed line- $30-40 (depending on configuration)- www.jegs.com

Go to the hardware store and get a barb fitting to weld into the oil pan.

Oil drain flange and gasket- $10 http://www.roadraceengineering.com/flangesandgaskets.htm

Triple gauge pillar- $45- www.gaugepods.com

Autometer Oil pressure gauge- $52- www.summitracing.com

Autometer Boost gauge- $45- www.summitracing.com

Autometer EGT gauge and probe- $125- www.summitracing.com

Autometer mechanical fuel pressure gauge- $30- www.summitracing.com

Digital A/F meter- $60- made by a 2GNT member (Corbin) that no longer makes them

Greddy turbo timer w/ harness- $60- www.dsmtrader.com

315cc injectors- $100- used from an ASOG member (get them from Ebay or a Mustang board)

Walbro 255HP intank fuel pump- $90- www.dsmtrader.com


I think I have listed everything. If you need anymore detail on things like the oil and fuel system then e-mail me because I have some pics of that stuff on my hard drive. All of this should be good for about 10psi which is as high as I'd go on stock internals. I just bought a built motor w/ Pauter rods and Wiseco 8.5 pistons. The only thing I will be doing is adding an inline fuel pump and getting a 2.5" turbo back exhaust and then I'll be running 15psi for now. Everything listed including future plans will be had for a little less than 4G's total. And here's some pics of the finished product. Any questions just e-mail me anytime.

[email protected]

http://avenger.kicks-ass.net/420avenger/update.jpg

http://avenger.kicks-ass.net/420avenger/CAI.jpg

http://avenger.kicks-ass.net/420avenger/IC.jpg

http://avenger.kicks-ass.net/420avenger/turbo16.jpg

http://avenger.kicks-ass.net/420avenger/turbo14.jpg

 

[1TuffRS]

Yeah I have to disagree with your engine builder too man, there is NO way your car will put out more 300hp with those mods. In fact you would make more power with the stock pistons than the lower compression pistons. Plus one of the major things holding our cars back in the way of NA hp is the rev limit placed on our cars. Its limited to 7200rpm regardless of your internal mods. The only way to get past that is to have some sort of fuel management system such as the DFI and with that you will only be able to rev it to 7800 (I told someone 8000 before, sorry I was wrong I looked it up since then) because of the ignition cut. AFX is supposed to be coming out with an ECU for our cars which will get us past that limit, but with the lower compression it will really not get the power your expecting. You can run 10.5 now and still turbo the car safely later on, you would just have to be more careful when tuning the car.

Also our engines are supposedly designed better than the 4g63's. Our head was designed by Lotus and in fact outflows their head. Our crank is already knife edged (atleast thats what Ive heard) and is a good powerplant to build upon.

 

[lo eclipz]

the pistons aren't the part giving me power except for overbore them allowing for more combustion space, all the machine work and the head work is where the power is coming from, the power rated before was an estimate we got from him, we could be mistaken or he could but with this build of which he has done more before, he said he would be dissapointed if under 300 hp. If hes right and its dynos around 300hp then it's all good and i'll suggest him to everybody, but if it's lower than that by alot then i'll be pissed for being misquoted and not getting the power he said would come, but we are still all new at the 420a engine, so bear with me. When you are planning on building the motor i am, going higher than 9:1 pistons will be dangerous when turbo and nitrous is applied at the level i am going to do. In a week or so, we will see, he has a dyno at his shop.

 

[curtis_rak]

I definately would not go 10.5:1 compression if I was to turbo. Even though it is possible, its just wa to touchy for tuning, I would much rather prefer to have a rock solid turboedengine running lower compression, if it mean running lower boost and taking a slight performance hit, so be it.

 

[mdre21]

crane makes an ignition system that you can set your rev limiter by 100 rpms from 600 all the way to 9900. Has anyone used this before or know anyone with experience and how high they went??

 

[mitsucar4]

With the stuff you have listed, there is no way you're going to get 300hp. No way.....not even close!!! I would get my money back from the mechanic and run!!!!