How difficult is it to replace a head?

[Onsoku]

I'm planning to buy a talon, but I may have to get a new head for it. I was wondering, how difficult would it be for a novice with cars to do this? I have no prior hands on experience with the engine, and I can take it slowly if need be(I have 2 months of free time due to vacation from school.)

The main question is this: If I am careful about replacing the head, would I run into any difficulties along the way due to my lack of knowledge, or is it as simple as following a set of directions?

Oh and I forgot to ask: Does anyone know good links/resources/tutorials for replacing a head?

 

[styx]

if you can do a timing belt, i am confident you can do the head, only thing extra toolwise you may not have, is a torque wrench, and to make sure the head gets cut if it is a used one. also you are talking about an assembled head right, also get new head bolts

wouldn't know about directions becuase i have never looked for them, once you do one head on any car you pretty much know how to do them all. same crap small variations but different car, you also need a timing light

 

[FORMONTOYA]

being a novice, i would not reccomend doing by yourself. the problem lies with the timing belt, if you screw that up your screwed. however, now would be a good time to just dive on in there if you can find a member or someone local to help you out...they supervise while you do the grunt work. great way to learn. info...search this site and vfaq, plus get at least a chilton's, haynes. or better yet, get the manual on cd. you will get more than your moneys worth back.

jim

 

[styx]

being a novice, i would not reccomend doing by yourself. the problem lies with the timing belt, if you screw that up your screwed. however, now would be a good time to just dive on in there if you can find a member or someone local to help you out...they supervise while you do the grunt work. great way to learn. info...search this site and vfaq, plus get at least a chilton's, haynes. or better yet, get the manual on cd. you will get more than your moneys worth back.

jim

chilton's is the best book to get, they get way more indepth than haynes on everything, especially electrical schematics

 

[Onsoku]

Would it be a one person job, or does it take an assistant sometimes? I was also thinking I could take the head out and send it off to a machine shop if the theres not much damage to it.(The guy said the timing belt broke, not sure the extent of the damage)

 

[4SFEDFOUR]

being a novice, i would not reccomend doing by yourself. the problem lies with the timing belt, if you screw that up your screwed. however, now would be a good time to just dive on in there if you can find a member or someone local to help you out...they supervise while you do the grunt work. great way to learn. info...search this site and vfaq, plus get at least a chilton's, haynes. or better yet, get the manual on cd. you will get more than your moneys worth back.

jim

Agreed. While you can take it on yourself... having someone who has done it before can be a real help.

Before long you will be the one being asked for help!

Good luck!

 

[styx]

use the force young padwan, i have faith in your abilities

 

[Onsoku]

Okay I think I can do this, and if I run into problems I can ask you guys here

Sorry to ask even more questions, but here it goes

Where can I buy a Chilton's Manual?

Is it a bad idea to try to replace valves myself?

Does the Chilton's Manual give instructions on how to replace a head, or is it more diagrams?

Thanks!

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Would it be a one person job, or does it take an assistant sometimes? I was also thinking I could take the head out and send it off to a machine shop if the theres not much damage to it.(The guy said the timing belt broke, not sure the extent of the damage)

if the belt broke you can plan on bent valves, maybe a trashed piston or two. however with that in mind you can go ahead and start pulling the parts to get that head off. my only suggestion would be to "bag and tag" all the parts. maybe take a few pictures along the way to make sure it goes back together correctly. yes it is a one person job. the only reason i suggested a knowledgeable person with you is for the timing belt...you can be right back to where you are now if you mess up. don't remove the intake mani...remove head and intake as one piece. there is a bracket underneath the intake that bolts to the block to intake mani...don't forget to remove that. do the research first, then do the job right.

http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html
plus search this site.


jim

EDIT: an assistant would be nice for re-installing the head/intake combo so you don't risk messing up the head gasket...at least for a little guy like me (at 5'-9"_135lbs). the combo is rather bulky leaning over the front by yourself.

 

[zachakagoat]

Would it be a one person job, or does it take an assistant sometimes? I was also thinking I could take the head out and send it off to a machine shop if the theres not much damage to it.(The guy said the timing belt broke, not sure the extent of the damage)

This can easily be done with one person but it does make it alot easier and quicker if you have someone there to help you and make sure you got everything. First off go to the store and pick up this shopping list

1. Package of ziploc bags
2. Sharpie marker
3. Roll of white masking tape
4. Chilton's manual (pick this up at ANY local parts store)

Ok now with this stuff you should have an easy time taking it all apart. When you pull off any hose write what it goes to on the tape and wrap it around it like a flag. You can also do it with the Alphabet method. Get half inch masking tap and whenever you take a hose off put the letter "A" on the hose and the letter "A" on the nipple that it went on that way you will always know what goes to what. Take stuff slow the first time you take everything apart because nuts ALWAYS seem to fall and NEVER hit the damn ground when you are working on these cars .

When you get everything disconnected and away from the head then go get someone to help you lift the head off so you won't risk ripping anything off or hurting yourself doing it yourself. When you pull the head the first time you will almost always have SOMETHING that you didn't notice and will have to disconnect it mid way or have someone helping you do it.

Since the guy broke a timing belt then you will need the head rebuilt (3-400$) or get one already rebuilt. Also you may have cracked a piston or two, You won't be able to tell until you get the head off and check. But with the Chilton's manual it will show you exactly how to fix all of that and it isnt TOO expensive I had my whole car rebuilt for 600$. It takes awhile the first time you get it off and everything but after awhile it'll come second nature (doing my 3rd rebuild, different cars btw ).

If you need any advice just pm me I'll be happy to help.

 

[Something Rudy]

with a good selection of tools, alot of common sense, a book, and the help of a machine shop you could get by. I really reccomend you getting someone who know what they are doing to help you because there are some parts that could prove to be tricky without prior experience.

if you broke the timing belt though, i am more than sure you bent valves. the head NEEDS to be checked out by a machine shop and unless you have a valve spring compressor (for ohc motors) and something to lap the valves with i would REALLY reccomend that you didn't attempt to replace them yourself.

most importantly before you jump into this car head first i would evaluate your finances because projects look like a deal at first but they can get expensive quickly. be able to afford to build it right and have the time and patience to do so.

good luck man

 

[promiscuousman]

It's not entirely difficult. The part you want to be particularly carefull about is the cam timing like has been stated, and make sure that the #1 piston is TDC and the cam timing is appropriate before you try to put the head back on. I would personally have a shop rebuild the head but if you do need new pistons that's not hard. You can get a set of 4 pistons/rings/pins(as well as many other replacement parts for cheap) from www.partsdinosaur.com for 133 bucks. I've had nothing but great experiences from this guy.

Definately TAG AND BAG stuff when you remove it, and I took notes the first couple times I did bigger projects i.e.
*removed 4 12mm bolts from harmonic dampner, put in baggie number 3
*removed 2 12mm bolts from timing belt tensioner, put in baggie 4

etc..

Good luck,

Cory

 

[Onsoku]

Thanks a lot for this information, I have a lot more confidence in buying the car now. I'll probobly go check out the car sometime in the next three days and tell you guys how it goes.

 

[Onsoku]

Sorry for asking another stupid question, but if there is piston damage and I end up having to replace them, do I have to pull the whole block out, or can I do it with it still in there?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

if all you are doing is changing pistons/rings...you can do it with the block still in the car. just remove the oil pan so you can get to the rod caps to unbolt them. just keep track of which caps and bearings go with each rod. also bearing location...ie cap half of bearing/rod half of bearing. also rod/cap orientation...what side of rod/cap (bearings should only fit one way) facing front. also it would not be a bad idea to re-hone the cylinder walls while you are at it for the new rings. if you have a bad piston chances are that the ring set is hammered also...best to change the rings on all 4 pistons while you are there.


jim

 

[promiscuousman]

I replaced the pistons/rings with the block still in the car. It was a pain b/c with the AWD you have to drop the transfer case, and in my case my entire exhaust (all welded together as one piece). But all you have to do after you have the head off is drop the oil pan, remove the rod caps, and there should be a distinguishing mark on one side of the rod cap. I think there was a small hole in the cap, facing the front of the car, make sure to take note of what you see. Also be sure you put each individual rod cap, and associated bearing half in a ziploc bag with the number on it. It is neccessary to put them back on the same one, in the same position. After that, take the 14mm(iirc) socket that you used to loosen the rod caps, and put it on the end of the rod bolt of a piston that is near the top of the stroke, and give it a small tap, until it starts to come out of the top of the block. Do this to all four and you have them out. You will have to take them to a shop to have the piston pins pushed out and the new pistons put on the rods. MAKE sure you mark the rods so that know what rod goes in which hole. I wrapped them with duct tape and wrote the number on the tape with something that won't smear off. Also it will probably be wise to aquire (borrow/purchase) a bottle hone and run it up and down in the cylinder a few times (cover crank journals very good so no fine metal particles get on them) to get a nice cross hatch. There is plenty of reading to be found using google on how to do this, and how to clean it up. One last word of warning, when you get the rings back on in the right position and are ready to drop the pistons in, cut a couple pieces of fuel line and slide it over the rod studs BEFORE you slide them in the holes. You don't want the stud to go down and hit the crank journal. Then torque everything back together, drive 85 miles, change your oil, go to the track with about 9 gallons of 100 octane launching at 6,250 rpm(awd) running 25 psi and post a 12.98 @ 105 Well, that's what I did the next day anyhow.

good luck,
Cory

 

[Onsoku]

Ahhhhhhhhh.....

Okay so I checked out the car today, and it didnt look very well maintained. There was surface rust on the front fender, the radio anttena was missing, the back center red plastic piece was cracked, tires were flat, scratched interior by hatch, broken hydraulic things that hold the hatch up(they dont keep it open.) He started the work on the head, but seeing the body as it was, im not sure if it would be worth it. (He's selling it for 700 by the way, what do you guys think?)

 

[promiscuousman]

Well, the hatch struts are shot in most dsm's from what I've read, I know they are in mine. But, if there's a lot of rust and noticeable damage, I would avoid it probably. Also if he's half way into a repair like that I would not pick it up. God knows what he's lost or broken, and it will be very hard to pick up on something half way through. Look for a good clean DSM to start with and you will have a good experience with them. If you start with a bad one, that always has problems, you may hate DSM's or even all cars after that.

 

[Masuk]

Well, like stated above, if there is obvious apperance damage to the car, chances are there are even worse mechanical problems. Thats how its always been for me, you think you got your self a deal until you see it. We all hate that.

I do have a few questions I would appricate if you could answer though now that we are on the subject.
When you say that there may be damaged pistons due to the timing belt braking, what are the odds that the connecting rods are shot or damaged in any way? If there are even minor damage done to the pistons, is it a deffinate that they need to be replaced? If the damage to the piston is extensive, would you beleive that it is only infact the piston that was damaged, or judging by the seriousness of the damage, there is most likely more damaged parts with in the block?(i.e connecting rods, bearings, crank journals?)

Thanks for all your help, and by the way, sorry to here that this DSM fell through for you, but dont worry, there are plenty of fish in the sea!

-Justin.

 

[fasteclipse1992]

not hard at all. the timing belt is harder to do than installing the head. that support bracket that bolts to the intake and the block is a pain just cus its kinda hard to get to the bolts to unbolt it from the intake. just alot of crap you gotta disconnect before you pull the head off. i changed my head and timing belt in the dark with a pen flashlight to see. took about an hour.

 

[Onsoku]

Justin, from what I know, it is pretty unlikely that the connecting rods would get damaged by a broken timing belt. The main cause of piston damage is by the piston hitting the bent or broken valve, causing scrapes, gouging and the sort. So most of the damage would be on the top of the piston and not affect the connecting rod in any way.

If I'm wrong, please correct me. I wouldn't want to give the wrong advice.

 

[Masuk]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. I was just thinking judging by the speed of the piston hitting something like a bent valve, the movement of the piston would be stalled and maybe even forced downward, putting strain on the connecting rods or even the crank. Thanks for the Help though.
-Justin