hotside dump tube how much power

[RNR_MOTORS]

how much horsepower do u get by adding the hotside dump tube also what are the pros and cons

also do i need to retune after adding a dump tube and a co2 ring?? i need to know thanxs everyone

 

[LiquidX]

The dumptube that you are referring to would be for an external wastegate either mounted off of the exhaust manifold (runner or collector) or the o2 housing. It does not add any horsepower it is just specualated that a dumped wastegate instead of recirculated back into the exhaust will have better boost control.

If you have emissions, I wouldn't suggest putting on a dump tube as it's unfilterd exhaust and it's just a giant exhuast leak. It gets loud when you go WOT and hit your preset boost level.

What are your reasonings for wanting a dump tube?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

I'd say there is little to no difference in power when adding an external dump for most setups. You will however have alot more noise present when going WOT because the noise is unmuffled coming out of the dump. Some people (like me) don't mind the extra noise and others hate it, so I guess it is up to you and what you like. Will you gain anything significant/noticable? Little if any

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

well i was told it makes like 20hp and the motor doesnt work as hard and also runs a lil cooler i put it on already but i havent had time to finish it i just gotta finish the oil return line and add oil to hear the difference does it get very loud at idle or only at boost im boosting 22lbs right now


also do i need to retune if i add a co2 ring

 

[Gamble97]

I noticed a nice bit of power difference when I put an o2 dump on (not external gate) and a loud noise difference as well

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

I'd say there is little to no difference in power when adding an external dump for most setups. You will however have alot more noise present when going WOT because the noise is unmuffled coming out of the dump. Some people (like me) don't mind the extra noise and others hate it, so I guess it is up to you and what you like. Will you gain anything significant/noticable? Little if any

yeah but is it better for the mortor temperature wise?

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

20hp? I don't think so.
Motor doesn't work as hard? WTF That doesn't make sense.
Runs a little cooler? Nope
It is not loud at idle... Only when you go WOT and reach max boost pressure.

 

[LiquidX]

well i was told it makes like 20hp and the motor doesnt work as hard and also runs a lil cooler i put it on already but i havent had time to finish it i just gotta finish the oil return line and add oil to hear the difference does it get very loud at idle or only at boost im boosting 22lbs right now


also do i need to retune if i add a co2 ring

Whoever told you that, is either lying or thought it was something else. The dump tube WILL NOT make any horsepower. It's part of the wastegate which is used to bypass exhaust from the turbine. Spinning the turbine is what will allow more air to be sucked into the compressor side and forced into the motor which = more boost which = more power.

What brand of wastegate are you using and where do you have yours located? If it's leaking, you will hear it at idle. Boost it is pretty loud, just imagine running no downpipe each time you hit full boost. I would say the dump tube is better for a slower spooling turbo with higer boost as you won't hit it constantly just driving around unlike a 16g. What is this "co2 ring" you are talking about. I have no idea what that is..

Here are a couple vids of a dumped wastegate.

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I'm sure you can hear the vast difference when the wastegate opens.


For the temperatue issue, if you are dumping into your engine bay, it'll make things hotter and hope that the tube isn't pointing at your alternator or oil filter or anything that's plastic. The exhaust temp. can be around 1500*F coming out of there at full boost.

An external gate is the same as how an internal gate works except, it's mounted externally instead of in the turbine housing. Did you weld the flapper shut (if you are mounted off of the manifold collector or a runner) or remove the flapper/keep it tied open (if it's mounted off of the o2 housing)?

 

[standard235]

Wtf is a CO2 ring?

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

20hp? I don't think so.
Motor doesn't work as hard? WTF That doesn't make sense.
Runs a little cooler? Nope

thats f...ing hilarious people can talk well i already put it on i guess ill just wait and see

im thinking of purging the co2 on the intercooler instead of the ugly ring what s ## take on that

Wtf is a CO2 ring?

View Hi Res Image PN: 20000CR-12
N-TERCOOLER SPRAY RING FOR CO2 REDUCES AIR INLET TEMP ON TURBO APPLICATIONS WITH 10LB COMPOSITE BOTTLE (Remote Mount Solenoid)

$878.51



"For supercharged or turbo applications where nitrous is not an option, Nitrous Express offers another alternative, the N-tercooler. Spraying nitrous over an air-to-air intercooler, can reduce air inlet temperatures dramatically. In a dyno test, a turbocharged Honda equipped with an NX N-tercooler, increased its baseline by an astounding 52 wheel horsepower! If it makes horsepower, it must be Nitrous Express! "

 

[TuRBoTaLooN]

20hp? I don't think so.
Motor doesn't work as hard? WTF That doesn't make sense.
Runs a little cooler? Nope
It is not loud at idle... Only when you go WOT and reach max boost pressure.

Agreed. There is minimal (if any) performance gain. Instead of recirculating the exhaust gases when the wastegate is open (external or internal), the gas goes straight out the pipe. It will be much louder, you may *THINK* you're going faster because of the noise, but I assure you the effect is minimal. Most people use external dumps because their setup cannot recirculate.

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

What brand of wastegate are you using and where do you have yours located?


to answer ## question i have a big 16g ported with the internal wastegate i dont have an external wastegate yet i was also told that if i upgrade to an external wastegate then the dump tube is useless

 

[LiquidX]

thats f...ing hilarious people can talk well i already put it on i guess ill just wait and see

im thinking of purging the co2 on the intercooler instead of the ugly ring what s ## take on that


View Hi Res Image PN: 20000CR-12
N-TERCOOLER SPRAY RING FOR CO2 REDUCES AIR INLET TEMP ON TURBO APPLICATIONS WITH 10LB COMPOSITE BOTTLE (Remote Mount Solenoid)

$878.51

"For supercharged or turbo applications where nitrous is not an option, Nitrous Express offers another alternative, the N-tercooler. Spraying nitrous over an air-to-air intercooler, can reduce air inlet temperatures dramatically. In a dyno test, a turbocharged Honda equipped with an NX N-tercooler, increased its baseline by an astounding 52 wheel horsepower! If it makes horsepower, it must be Nitrous Express! "

The external dump WILL allow rock solid boost control so that is a plus over all. I wouldn't worry about any spray or meth injection to cool your inlet temps down. You are not pushing the car hard enough and doubt you are knocking bad enough to need it. It's a waste of money IMO and can be used for better things. Use it to get ECMLink, larger injectors and a bigger turbo. Sell the 560's and the SAFC. You'll have more power then going that route.

What brand of wastegate are you using and where do you have yours located?


to answer ## question i have a big 16g ported with the internal wastegate i dont have an external wastegate yet i was also told that if i upgrade to an external wastegate then the dump tube is useless

Wait let me get this right, you have the 16g internally gated. You do NOT have external wastegate. So what am I missing? Why the hell did you start dumping? Were you having boost creep issues? You shouldn't if you said it's ported. If you didn't have any problems with your boost controll then you just wasted however much money you spent to get a dumped o2 housing WITHOUT the benefit of having an external wastegate. Congrats

Pictures taken from www.punishment-racing.com

This is what yours looks like right?

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This is what we thought you had and what is vastly superior to the above for boost control.

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This is the above but recirculated. Again, much better than the first one.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

The external dump WILL allow rock solid boost control so that is a plus over all. I wouldn't worry about any spray or meth injection to cool your inlet temps down. You are not pushing the car hard enough and doubt you are knocking bad enough to need it. It's a waste of money IMO and can be used for better things. Use it to get ECMLink, larger injectors and a bigger turbo. Sell the 560's and the SAFC. You'll have more power then going that route.

yeah those are my next upgrades in mind is it true that the stock maf on a 2g is only good to 350hp

if so what are some ideas to get around it before having no choice but to install a stand alone

Wait let me get this right, you have the 16g internally gated. You do NOT have external wastegate. So what am I missing? Why the hell did you start dumping? Were you having boost creep issues? You shouldn't if you said it's ported. If you didn't have any problems with your boost controll then you just wasted however much money you spent to get a dumped o2 housing WITHOUT the benefit of having an external wastegate. Congrats [/QUOTE]

i got it for free.99 i got it as a gift thats y im asking about cause i knew nothing about till now

yeah i have that one the other 2 pic didnt come thru but yeah that what i got

 

[LiquidX]

yeah those are my next upgrades in mind is it true that the stock maf on a 2g is only good to 350hp

if so what are some ideas to get around it before having no choice but to install a stand alone

Wait let me get this right, you have the 16g internally gated. You do NOT have external wastegate. So what am I missing? Why the hell did you start dumping? Were you having boost creep issues? You shouldn't if you said it's ported. If you didn't have any problems with your boost controll then you just wasted however much money you spent to get a dumped o2 housing WITHOUT the benefit of having an external wastegate. Congrats

i got it for free.99 i got it as a gift thats y im asking about cause i knew nothing about till now[/QUOTE]

The stock 2g MAS is not a restriction until I believe 450-500hp IIRC. If you choose to get rid of it and there are only 3 reasons why you would.

1. 3" GM MAF in draw through at the stock location. (It's less restricting than the OEM piece.
2. 3" GM MAF in blow through (?) on the upper intercooler pipe. (Just allows you to vent )

Both will require the MAFT to allow it to work with our ECU. If you went with ECMLink, you can buy a cable to hook up directly to the ECU that eliminates the need for the MAFT.

3. Speed Density which is a completly different way of measuring the air coming in and is not affected by boost leaks i.e. making the car run pig rich (boost leaks are still bad)
You'll need ECMLink v.3 to run that or another system that offers that capability.

Well, if it's free then use it. If you wern't having any boost problems, the only difference you'll notice is the very loud noise coming from under the hood at full boost.

Should have waited for us to respond so you could send it back and get a true external setup.

 

[RNR_MOTORS]

i also got that co2 ring kit i was talking about but i got it with 2 10lb tanks i might just use them to purge out the side skirts or something im not sure

 

[LiquidX]

Seriously, return the kit you are talking about! Use that money for something more beneficial. You would only gain maybe 5-10 HP using the spray on the IC and during the winter, prob. no gains at all. You are just trying to cool the intake charge and people only use them when running high boost on lower grade fuel to help keep knock at bay. A better solution would be Meth injection which is also CHEAPER. Don't waste money, even if it's not yours.

 

[FactoryChrome]

The dumptube .... is just specualated that a dumped wastegate instead of recirculated back into the exhaust will have better boost control.

The external dump WILL allow rock solid boost control so that is a plus over all

Alright Scott Lolka it's a good thing I'm not "doing some reading" on this site or else I'd be absorbing your conflicting information.

Maybe you should give others a chance to answer so that you don't come off as that annoying kid that raises his hand in class saying pick me pick me... and then his answer isn't correct in the middle of all his confidence.

It is my *BELIEF* that a small amount of power could be gained by not introducing turbulence (and thus more back pressure) into the exhaust... in some cases *maybe even 20hp (in a very high hp car like 1500hp or so'ish)... notice how I'm not nailing anything down and claiming it is absolute gospel? This leaves room for error in the event that I'm not correct and also helps people understand that just because this is one way of thinking about it doesn't necessarily mean that it's 100% true. I'm fine w/ not being a "know it all" because there's no point in proving your e-knowledge.

 

[JusMX141]

how much horsepower do u get by adding the hotside dump tube also what are the pros and cons

Probably not as much horsepower as you'd gain by SEARCHING.


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...aight-into-atmosphere-appropriate-my-car.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/356913-first-o2-dump.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/349236-o2-dump.html

^ ^
Just the first three threads listed on over seven pages of searchable links with plenty of information. Read all seven pages of threads and if you're not an expert on the topic by the time you've finished, we will be glad to answer any additional questions you may have.

 

[LiquidX]

Alright Scott Lolka it's a good thing I'm not "doing some reading" on this site or else I'd be absorbing your conflicting information.

Maybe you should give others a chance to answer so that you don't come off as that annoying kid that raises his hand in class saying pick me pick me... and then his answer isn't correct in the middle of all his confidence.

It is my *BELIEF* that a small amount of power could be gained by not introducing turbulence (and thus more back pressure) into the exhaust... in some cases *maybe even 20hp (in a very high hp car like 1500hp or so'ish)... notice how I'm not nailing anything down and claiming it is absolute gospel? This leaves room for error in the event that I'm not correct and also helps people understand that just because this is one way of thinking about it doesn't necessarily mean that it's 100% true. I'm fine w/ not being a "know it all" because there's no point in proving your e-knowledge.

I have do say, that's the first time I've heard "Lolka" does that mean something? I'm just trying to give help like everyone else so sorry for being "annoying". Everyone is allowed to put a new post in as a forum is used for discussion.

Just wanted to clairify, I meant to use external gate and not "dump" on the line you quoted me on. An external wastegate will have solid boost control as long as the path to the wastegate is the least restrictive.

I would like to see some dyno numbers of those "speculations" that a dump tube will increase horsepower. I think that if it wern't for emissions, everyone would run external dump if it did create noticable HP. That's just my opionion however.

You are right though as it will have less turbulance in the exhaust but I *believe* that for most street applications the use of a dump tube is negligable for any type of possible gain it would have. Maybe for a track car yes, but most track cars are also straight pipe and not emission compliant.

 

[FactoryChrome]

How does a dump tube affect emissions if the emissions test is only done under a certain rpm (~2000) where you will never see the wg open anyway unless you're running a baby dick turbo set to 1psi?

I also didn't know that "noticeable hp" was something that anyone was going for. Any increase is an increase good enough for me (and most everyone else too) whether it can be felt on the butt dyno or plotted on an actual dyno graph. If it gets 1 more hp then I'm glad I did it provided I'm ok with the down sides to whatever it was (noise level or whatever).

Well Scott, now that you're agreeing that the turbulence might be a possibly hp suppressing issue... what about the exhaust scavenging effects that would be lost by dumping some of the exhaust to the atmosphere? It can go both ways. I would say, unless you're an expert and know FOR A FACT that something is a certain way, you should avoid spreading misinformation. It's how you end up with a forum full of people spouting out answers that are untrue.

And, yes, this is a forum that is meant to help people... so why is it that you told me the other day that I need to "go do some reading"? Lol... cracked me up man. I think if someone asks a question it should ALWAYS get an answer whether it's been asked before and documented or not. You will catch a lot more kudos helping someone out rather than sending them off on the witch hunt for search results.

 

[JusMX141]

How does a dump tube affect emissions if the emissions test is only done under a certain rpm (~2000) where you will never see the wg open anyway unless you're running a baby dick turbo set to 1psi?

You're right about the flapper not being open at all, so the dump tube will have no effect on the testing unless the turbine housing is cracked in some way....but the dump housing wasn't installed from the factory, so it will not pass the visual exam in most states.

 

[FactoryChrome]

Yeah... but even with a cracked housing would that affect the reading since they're measuring at the muffler, or does a cracked housing w/ an open dump somehow pull in open air and dilute the exhaust? Even then I think it would "help" it pass.

In any case, you are right about the visual exam. Are the techs smart enough to know what a dump tube on a wastegate is ?

 

[JusMX141]

Yeah... but even with a cracked housing would that affect the reading since they're measuring at the muffler, or does a cracked housing w/ an open dump somehow pull in open air and dilute the exhaust?

I meant "cracked" as in "allowing wastegate gases to bypass the flapper", not drawing in outside air or allowing exhaust to seep through the housing to the outside air.

In any case, you are right about the visual exam. Are the techs smart enough to know what a dump tube on a wastegate is ?

I would think a tech could easily spot an aftermarket stainless dump housing on the end of a turbo where a large chunk of cast iron used to be....especially if they've worked on more than one car in their lifetime.

 

[FactoryChrome]

Ah yes I see... sorry for the confusion.