Horrible Noises on 1st Startup after Rebuild [Video]

[360glitch]

Just finished getting everything back together and spinning a rod bearing, and now I'm faced with this.

You can see/hear it by clicking here:

YouTube - 4g63 Noise on Startup

A good buddy of mine suggested bleeding the lifters so since the video I pulled them, bled them, put them back in. The noise is still there. The oil pressure seems to be good and there is plenty of it in the engine. Any ideas?

Note: The idle does smooth out a bit after running for a few seconds but the noise is still there. Also, I did a compression test with perfect results.

 

[BogusSVO]

ohhhhhh thats bad.....

whats your build?

did you bore the block?
have the crank turned?

 

[tenn-gsx]

Lifters can take as long as 20-30 min to fully pressurize. As long as the noise is in the upper end of the engine just let it IDLE for a while. Dont rev the engine until the lifters completely fill.

 

[360glitch]

ohhhhhh thats bad.....

whats your build?

did you bore the block?
have the crank turned?

2G pistons on 1G rods
Block 20 over
Fresh Crank

Lifters can take as long as 20-30 min to fully pressurize. As long as the noise is in the upper end of the engine just let it IDLE for a while. Dont rev the engine until the lifters completely fill.

Sounds like a plan. I've had this suggested by another person but was a bit worried to do so with all of the racket. Will try it tonight.

 

[1SickAuto]

its definately the lifters. i just rebuilt my head and put 3gs in it and it did that for about 20 min or so. just let it idle and after a while u will hear em shut up 1 by one

 

[360glitch]

its definately the lifters. i just rebuilt my head and put 3gs in it and it did that for about 20 min or so. just let it idle and after a while u will hear em shut up 1 by one

Well that makes me feel better. It sounds horrible and pretty much makes me want to cry. I'll let it run and pray and we'll see what happens.

 

[g_ferg]

The lifters in mine did the same thing for about 30 minutes. Then the noise went away after that

 

[BogusSVO]

Im glad you guys said this, what I was thinking was far worse... so Ill just keep quite till he runs the lifters in...and see what he has to say.

 

[360glitch]

Im glad you guys said this, what I was thinking was far worse... so Ill just keep quite till he runs the lifters in...and see what he has to say.

Hit me.

Ran it for 45 minutes at a 1k rpm idle. Little to no improvement. A respected friend of mine suggests holding it at 2.5k rpms for 2-3 minutes straight, to see if that improves things. Going to try that tomorrow hopefully. Any other thoughts/ideas?

 

[DSM1G90]

A respected friend of mine suggests holding it at 2.5k rpms for 2-3 minutes straight, to see if that improves things. Going to try that tomorrow hopefully. Any other thoughts/ideas

Yep, good ol' "Gregory Hine's tap-dance syndrome" - lifters that haven't pumped up yet.

I wouldn't run them in at that high RPMS. Do as other mention: let them run in on idle RPM's. Damage could occur at those high RPM's on new lifters - like getting flat spots and you get flat spots, you're gonna need to replace them again.

I did a 1.8L's lifters this spring and it took over an hour for all eight lifters to finally get pumped up .... just keep doing it and be patient.

-DSM

 

[360glitch]

Yep, good ol' "Gregory Hine's tap-dance syndrome" - lifters that haven't pumped up yet.

I wouldn't run them in at that high RPMS. Do as other mention: let them run in on idle RPM's. Damage could occur at those high RPM's on new lifters - like getting flat spots and you get flat spots, you're gonna need to replace them again.

I did a 1.8L's lifters this spring and it took over an hour for all eight lifters to finally get pumped up .... just keep doing it and be patient.

-DSM

Alright, so keep letting it run. I suppose I can try that some more, can't hurt anything... I hope.

 

[360glitch]

Bump


Any other suggestions and/or opinions?

 

[PLYMOUTH TURBO]

Let your car run for 20 to 40 minutes,I just recently got my head rebuilt with 3g revised lifters and it sounded like your start-up,but after 30 minutes and a few quick pulls,engine sounds beastly now with no lifter tick what so ever

 

[BogusSVO]

Hit me.

Ran it for 45 minutes at a 1k rpm idle. Little to no improvement. A respected friend of mine suggests holding it at 2.5k rpms for 2-3 minutes straight, to see if that improves things. Going to try that tomorrow hopefully. Any other thoughts/ideas?

well, if it hasnt started to quiet down from the liftes pumping up yet.

did you measure the bore on the block after it was bored?

I bought an engine that sounded alot like that one time years back, the engine was just rebuilt, but what happened was the wrong pistons were in the block, the block was bored .040 and the pistons were .030

also did you check the rod bearings when installed?, you said a fresh crank, was the crank ground? or was it just a used STD crank?

check the oil pressure at the head, there is a little pipe plug on the exhaust side on the left corner, install a oil gauge and see what the pressure is to the head.

 

[TSIfreek]

Make sure your getting oil pressure to the head. Sound to me like the lifters havent gotten pumped up yet. Keep us updated!!!

 

[360glitch]

Let your car run for 20 to 40 minutes,I just recently got my head rebuilt with 3g revised lifters and it sounded like your start-up,but after 30 minutes and a few quick pulls,engine sounds beastly now with no lifter tick what so ever

I've had it idle for 45 minutes with little to no change. Do you think I should take it for a drive?

well, if it hasnt started to quiet down from the liftes pumping up yet.

did you measure the bore on the block after it was bored?

I bought an engine that sounded alot like that one time years back, the engine was just rebuilt, but what happened was the wrong pistons were in the block, the block was bored .040 and the pistons were .030

also did you check the rod bearings when installed?, you said a fresh crank, was the crank ground? or was it just a used STD crank?

check the oil pressure at the head, there is a little pipe plug on the exhaust side on the left corner, install a oil gauge and see what the pressure is to the head.

I've ran the pistons in this block before as-is with no issues. The rods were checked along with the used STD crank that went into the block by the machine. I used new, Calico coated ACL Race Series bearings.

Oil comes out of that spot on the side of the head, but I have not measured the exact pressure. Need to do that tonight I suppose.

Make sure your getting oil pressure to the head. Sound to me like the lifters havent gotten pumped up yet. Keep us updated!!!

Going to 100% confirm I'm getting enough oil tonight.


------

Thanks for the help everyone!

 

[Rob10_99]

I would take off the timing belt and run that oil pump with a drill or even take those lifters back out and hand bleed them!

 

[360glitch]

I would take off the timing belt and run that oil pump with a drill or even take those lifters back out and hand bleed them!

Did pull them out and hand bleed them, still no luck.

 

[BogusSVO]

ok, so the block has had these pistons in them before with out issue, thats good.

that takes that out of the equation.

that just leaves oil to the head.

do you have any idea of how much has been milled off the head?

 

[g_ferg]

I don't reccomend this. But when my lifters did that they didn't quiet down even after letting the car sit and idle for hours. What finally did it was literally taking the car out and running the piss out of it. Couple pulls up through 2nd and it went away. But that is all up to you and if you feel like trying your luck.

EDIT: Come to think of it i had a blance shaft that spun a bearing and it also sounded just about the same as that

 

[Sp1kE]

So you have had these pistons in this block before, but your title says first startup after rebuild?
So you had these pistons in before, then you said its bored .20 over and you used the same pistons?

Either you created a Cluster F*ck or I'm just misreading this.

 

[360glitch]

I don't reccomend this. But when my lifters did that they didn't quiet down even after letting the car sit and idle for hours. What finally did it was literally taking the car out and running the piss out of it. Couple pulls up through 2nd and it went away. But that is all up to you and if you feel like trying your luck.

EDIT: Come to think of it i had a blance shaft that spun a bearing and it also sounded just about the same as that

I'm going to try to hook up my electric oil pressure gauge (aftermarket) to the head tonight and check the pressure just to double check. After I confirm I'll probably take it out for a drive and ease into it, hoping for the best.

ok, so the block has had these pistons in them before with out issue, thats good.

that takes that out of the equation.

that just leaves oil to the head.

do you have any idea of how much has been milled off the head?

As far as re-surfacing? I can confirm that it has been re-surfaced more than once however I am fairly confident it's still within spec.

 

[Rob10_99]

Bogus' asking because he found the restriction on the 4g head setup. Its pretty lame how milling the head limits oil flow.

 

[360glitch]

Bogus' asking because he found the restriction on the 4g head setup. Its pretty lame how milling the head limits oil flow.

I see. I did not know this was an issue until now.

 

[BogusSVO]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/341028-4g63t-head-oil-port-mod.html

New head thickness is 5.201
The mitsu Fac manual says only .008 can be the combined total from head and block
AERA says .015 of the head for a min thick of 5.185

with the heads I have checked, the oil trough is appox .080 deep new
ALso I have learned that milling .008 closes the head up by 1cc

there was another member that had the same issue as you, but he had a clog of RTV down in the block just before the the block deck .