hits about 5k rpm, the car falls flat on its face

[jmatyas]

ok. so here we go again. So here is the problem. When i get on the gas and the turbo spools up and the car hits about 5k rpm, the car falls flat on its face and acts as though there is no turbo in the car. As though the boost was never there, but up till about 4,500 to 5k the boost and everything is fine.

I took it down to a dyno shop and this shows how bad it is. I dyno'd at 105hp with 155 torque. !!!! I had it at there shop for 6 hours today and everyone there was at a loss of words. We checked everything. boost leak... none, hoses in place and new. yes. I have no idea of what to do.

Come on my dsm friends. help me figure this out before i dump it off at the junkyard.

Oh also in case your wondering this is all that has been replaced. o2, maf, timing belt, boost leak test, fuel pressure, spark plugs and wires twice, over $4500 in replacement parts and labor has gone into this car....and its just almost stock... im about the cry...

 

[jmatyas]

yea its a sad day to have sears do it . the up side is the guy that works on my car when we have to has a mean tubro'd 240sx.

i need to find someone with a ecu i can try. there is no one around my area that is a turbo dsm guy. makes me wish i was still back in cali sometimes.

ill check the knock again and make sure its good.

i never got a clear answer if its ok that i drive without the hose on the bcs? i love having the 14ish psi of boost. makes me smile just a lil bit again

 

[Bluefire16]

I told you its fine you can run your t25 from the wastegate to the turbo boost source all day and have no problems. Just dont unplug the bcs or you will through a code...

 

[gstryyder]

seriously just run the hose from the nipple on your compressor housing to the nipple on your actuator. zip tie the bcs somewhere while keeping it plugged in and call it a day. and then adress your problems that are still there afterward. thought they checked to make sure all your solenoids worked... .. guess most of it was a solenoid problem. just run that hose from the turbo to the actuator and see how things go from there.... good to see you got some boost now.

 

[jmatyas]

yea im starting to not trust any shops around here now. i rarely ever have time these days to work on my car. but it looks like im about to take off about a week and take the car to my gfs house and start running all of my own tests.

thanks again for the support guys. i go into work in about an hour and ill have my buddy pull my cat in our auto center while im there and see whats up with it. either way i just ordered a hi flow one to replace it just to get that out of the way. wont be installed untill the problem is worked out to not cause any more harm.

tomorrow i have off so it will be a long day of car work. im going to check the turbo and make sure its not leaking because i have a good amount of oil/fuel looking and smelling liquid in the intercooler. ill be sure to recheck the shaft play. im tempted to get another maf and see if its the problem as well. ill keep you all posted as progress or anything happens.

 

[rush2252]

Just some food for thought ive seen some of those high flow cats cause CEL from the rear o2 sensor. I havent owned a 2gb so I am not 100% sure on that particular model. My 95 is running straight exhause without any CELs

-Kolby

 

[DSMTriad]

Yeah, I'm not getting any power at all and my turbo is extremely hot. I couldn't even make it up a hill today so I'm going to check my cat as well as the turbo.

 

[gstryyder]

if the new cat does throw a code they have things to fix that that cost a couple dollars all it does is space then sensor from the cat a bit, while still being hooked up and functional. if you are having that problem.. look into them.

Yeah, I'm not getting any power at all and my turbo is extremely hot. I couldn't even make it up a hill today so I'm going to check my cat as well as the turbo.

start a new thread so we can trouble shoot your problems too.

i would do a BLT, and also check to see if your wastegate is functioning properly. so you have a boost/vacuum gauge?

 

[DSMTriad]

Yeah sorry to the OP, its just he's been having the same problems I've been having. I've just been keeping tabs on this thread and putting in my 2 cents.

 

[jmatyas]

hey man no harm no foul. its all good. . if my thread can also help out other then hey thats awesome!! hopefully we can get our cars back on the road again soon.

i agree with the blt and also checking your cat if your turbo/manifold gets really hot then usually its a good sized leak to possible overboost or it could be your exaust chocking the airflow to make it work twice as hard. those two are a given but hey im starting to learn myself i need to tripple check some of my s**t out.

so far out here no exaust shop wants to pull my cat. they all tell me that if i pull it the cat they have to replace it. BS!!!!!! they just want more money. sigh. i wish some of you guys lived around me or had a nice shop i could take it to.

 

[DSMTriad]

Yeah they always want to take the cat for themselves. Why not get a saw or torch to get the cat off? That's what I'm going to do or save up for a 3". I'm driving my N/T now, a friend stopped by with a BLT and timing light but we never got to checking it out.

 

[gstryyder]

just grab a small jack, some tools... some pb blaster, pull up into an autozone or something... and jack it up n work on it there... thats the simplest solution i can think of.

just make sure you have a couple hours... pull up, park it...jack the car up, open the hood and let everything cool off. (more room for airflow+ faster cool off time. once it is cooled off. spray an a$$load of pb blaster all over the bolts. grab a drink and chill out for a few minutes. then take your wrenches (might have to double them to extend em for more torque) and bust the cat bolts loose. seperate the cat from the downpipe and take a look.

and when i say get your wrench extended i mean you want a couple feet of leverage. i got mine off on a dirt road with my car raise less then a foot off the ground (NO ROOM, LOWERED CAR, CRAPPY JACK)... and with 2 long wrenches together i busted the bolts loose.

good luck with it, but that is my best recommendation. unless you have a friend with a garage and air tools.

exhaust shops are retarded. and autozones/checkers/kragens/napa... they don't give a F*** if you are working on your car in their parking lot, just tell em you are trying to figure out what is wrong with your car (no need to be specific) and you need to stop there to do so... they have never bothered me before... and i have worked in their parking lots for hours at a time...

GOOD LUCK MAN!!

 

[jmatyas]

i totally forgot about going to autozone . i actually just got ahold of my buddy at a 2 z performance and theyre going to hook me up in an hour with a exaust pressure test to see if its clogged anywhere in the system and were going to run another dyno run with no exaust and see if there is any change. also i havent had a chance to check the turbo today. well go ahead and do it there.

its going to save me a ton of work and time to do it this way. thank god there not too busy over there.

ill update a lil bit later tonight and see let you all know whats going on. thanks again guys!!!! see you all later tonight.

 

[habitatguy187]

so far out here no exaust shop wants to pull my cat. they all tell me that if i pull it the cat they have to replace it.

Just take it out tonight after dark, let it warm up, drive it hard, then get out and look under your car at the cat. If it's glowing red then you know it's clogged, if not then you should probably be looking elsewhere.

 

[jmatyas]

update #2!!!!
ok sorry it took a few days to get back. comp crashed . but im back with alot of new tests and we have figured out the only problem i have left. but we cant figure out how to fix it.

let me first back up and let you know the new tests and what we have figured out.
1. cat is clean. backpressure test came back perfect. no prob there.
2. blt #3 was done and yea still small leak at the bov but nothing serious to worry about.
3. maf replaced again but no help. sigh. waist of money.

what we have learned is. there is too much fuel going to the engine. thats it. no ifs ands or buts.

now here is the question. after all this testing and work and dyno's and everything. in my oppinion it has to be the ecu.... its the only thing i can think of. i mean new fuel filter, pump, everything has been replaced but to no help. it just jumps so high up in richness on the dyno its not even funny. almost feels like the car is in limp mode.

new dyno results were 207hp at 275tq. but here is the catch. that was only at 4200rpm.... cant go anyfurther than that. it hits a fake redline at about 5krpm with this fuel problem.

so what do you guys think? ecu or what? im up for a 2nd/3rd/ or more oppinion. let me pick your brain!!!!

also if i do get a new ecu it will be an eprom and i need help finding a good one at a good price. up to $300 depending on what it has. thanks again my dsm friends.

 

[cfriddle]

I had exactly! exactly! the same problem and after exhaust, intercooler, gm maf, cat delete, turbo, and thousands of other wasted purchases, it was the ecu!!!!!!!!! I finally ponied up and ordered an aem plugged it in and loaded the stock base map and bam!!!! thing ran like a scalded ape! lots have changed since then but my money is on your ecu. Time to upgrade.

 

[Artago]

2. blt #3 was done and yea still small leak at the bov but nothing serious to worry about.

Just get a 1G BOV. They hold more boost without leaking.

eBay Motors: 1g DSM BOV for Talon, Eclipse, Laser or any turbo car. (item 300311379742 end time May-05-09 19:38:14 PDT)

new dyno results were 207hp at 275tq. but here is the catch. that was only at 4200rpm

207hp and 275tq on a stock turbo? WTF That's insane. And all this at 4200 RPM with boost problems? WTFWTF

Tom

 

[joescool2008]

Just get a 1G BOV. They hold more boost without leaking.

eBay Motors: 1g DSM BOV for Talon, Eclipse, Laser or any turbo car. (item 300311379742 end time May-05-09 19:38:14 PDT)



207hp and 275tq on a stock turbo? WTF That's insane. And all this at 4200 RPM with boost problems? WTFWTF

Tom

It's a honda civic dyno, thats how they put out the nice numbers... Have you checked the fpr?

 

[BoostFrenzy]

Have you checked the fpr?

That is my next guess as well. I have seen some resent posts about fuel pressure regulators going bad on 2gb turbo models. Time to find a pick-a-part.

 

[mindset]

I haven't read through all of the posts but please be sure to do a boost leak test the right way. Make sure you put in about 15psi and see if it holds. Otherwise you won't hear 2 psi coming out, you know what I mean?

 

[dsmeclipsex]

I actually have the same problem in my 90 tsi. Mine is around 6300rpm. My SAFC is set perfectly to low boost settings and whatnot, boost never gets over 9psi. Drivability isn't effected other than that.

 

[jmatyas]

boost leak test was done at just under 18psi with a bottle of soap water to make sure there was no leaks. it came out clean happy to say.

it was done on a dynojet dyno. really nice set up, it was able to read up to 1200hp. would love to see those kind of numbers thrown down one day. . ill try to scan the dyno slip to post it up soon to show how bad it bogs out. its an interesting sight.

thanks for the info CFRIDDLE, im happy to hear that someone had close to what i have and fixed it. thank you!!!! ill deff try the ecu and pray that it was just that. i had a small idea that it was the ecu from the begining and i tryed to save some money in the long run to look through everything else... woops .

now to find a eprom!!!

 

[gstryyder]

so did you ever check the FPR? if it is running rich maybe it isn't bleeding off enough fuel and overfeeding your injectors? as far as getting an ecu, i know i mentioned that that could be the problem, but you should check the FPR first. and take a bunch of very detailed pics of your ecu to see if there is any damage. buying an eprom wouldn't hurt anyways though....

 

[habitatguy187]

so did you ever check the FPR? if it is running rich maybe it isn't bleeding off enough fuel and overfeeding your injectors? as far as getting an ecu, i know i mentioned that that could be the problem, but you should check the FPR first. and take a bunch of very detailed pics of your ecu to see if there is any damage. buying an eprom wouldn't hurt anyways though....

+1, much cheaper to check it first. Also are you positive that you have stock injectors?

 

[jmatyas]

just went outside this morning and checked. the injectors are stock and in great working condition. sorry i forgot to mention that. i went out to double check.
the fpr looks to be fine. i went ahead and checked the fpr and it looks to be ok. i ordered a aftermarket one as well to make sure i can help control the flow.

i just found a brand new 2g eprom ecu for $200 shipped so ill have that soon. i just hope that this will take care of my problem.....hope is a big word

 

[99GST83]

check under your valve cover for a rocker that has possible come off or might be broken. I has one pop off on me, and it caused the same symptoms as what you are describing. Just take the valve cover off and look and see if your rockers are all there where they are supposed to be. Should take 5 minutes... Good luck