Help, Multiple Problems...

[Spoolin98]

Hey guys I need some help getting my brothers car running right. To make a long story short, he bought a 91 talon tsi awd not knowing that the axle bracket bolts were snapped off inside the block. I ended up pulling the motor to extract the bolts. I replaced the intake manifold gasket because there was a huge vacuum leak. I dropped the motor back in and ran into a few problems.

#1
The CEL is on only at idle, when you give it throttle it turns off. Anyone have this same problem? How did you fix it? I am not around the car. I'm away at school.
My brother bought a datalogger, but cannot seem to get the thing to work. First the software sent by pocketlogger was faulty, now he got the software working, but the palm keeps telling him to check the connection. He followed vfaq for the installation of the logger cable.

#2
The temp gauge does not work since I reinstalled everything. I took the car to autozone, the guy there said he knew a bit about dsms, he looked at the car and said it had a 2g thermostat housing, and the person bent these pins to fit this female connector on (attached pictures). It looks like the part being pointed to has been replaced, there is some sort of sealant around it, the grey stuff. Is this a 2g housing? I dont understand why it is not working now, because it was working before.

#3
The car stutters around mid range rpms. The only thing I touched were spark plugs, wires, and the coilpack(which was swapped onto another IM). I gapped and put new plugs in, that did not fix it. The car did not do this before I pulled the motor. I did a boost leak test, it seems the only place there is a leak is the throttle body seals, which explains why I need the BISS screw all the way in to get the car to idle correctly.

Sorry for the long post. I just want to get this car running right already.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Spoolin98]

By default, I would say #2 here, as the gauge sending unit is the smallest of the three, and (in mine at least) is the only sensor with a single prong male connector.

Are you referring to post 38 also? Because #2 on that picture is the thermovalve for the EGR.

 

[femmeDSM]

This is the sensor that Autozone told me belongs in the #1 spot(post 38). The same thing you linked me to.
Which is one single male connector. I even checked the screen myself, It was the right sensor for a 1g, but their computers aren't always correct.

Gauge Sending Unit: (Post 17)
http://www.diamondstarmotorsport.com...uge-sensor.jpg

So long as they are wired to the correct places, I really don't think it should matter which sensor is put where, as mentioned earlier.

If that's the sensor he showed you, that is the correct gauge sending unit for any 1g. If I was in your place, I would probably just remove all of the sensors from the car in question and compare them to the pics from DSMotorsport to get a positive ID on them. You might need to replace them with new units, especially if any of the prongs are bent like on your Temp Fan Switch. Dealership costs are fairly high for these, but DSMotorsport has them all for sale in their "Maintenance" category for ~$10.00 less than dealership pricing.

 

[femmeDSM]

Are you referring to post 38 also? Because #2 on that picture is the thermovalve for the EGR.

Yeah, I was. I didn't finish reading DSM90AWD's post before I said that. *That I know of* there should not be *any* vacuum lines attached anywhere down there on the thermostat housing. Since I have the early 1990 Throttle Body, I don't have the same vacuum line structure as you, so it probably wouldn't help for me to try and take a guess as to where that vacuum line is supposed to go in your car. Otherwise, I would trace it back to its proper location for you

Honestly, though......If this was my car, I would just replace all of those sensors and be done with it.....I know that money doesn't grow on trees, but I have dealt with my share of crazy wiring issues and misc. mis-placed parts in my car, and I found that in cases like this, it sometimes helps to just remove the whole mess and start over if at all possible....

 

[Spoolin98]

Yeah well I am not too concerned about the vacuum lines now that I know they are supposed to be there. My main concern now is to find out why the temp gauge is not working.

 

[DSM90AWD]

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This was where mine is located (the one that says gauge)

 

[Spoolin98]

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This was where mine is located (the one that says gauge)

This is where what was? There are so many different things being discussed I am getting confused.

 

[Spoolin98]

#1 Is the Temp sensor for the ECU, this has to be working and hooked up or your engine will run like poopy

#2 As I said above is the Thermovalve for the EGR

#3 Is the A/C fan temp sensor which makes both fans come on high when the engine is running at operating temp and the A/C is on.

BTW, that is a 1990 housing, got one of them myself

So of these 3 spots on my thermostat housing, which one sends the signal to the temp gauge?

 

[ddavisaf]

That's the thing... it's usually a seperate sensor. The thermovalve has got me all bassackwards.

 

[femmeDSM]

That's the thing... it's usually a seperate sensor. The thermovalve has got me all bassackwards.

Yeah, same here. I'm getting confused now, too.

 

[DSM90AWD]

This is where what was? There are so many different things being discussed I am getting confused.

You post above mine mentioned your Engine Temp Gauge, I say look at this pic which was posted back on page 1 of this thread. Now read where it says "Engine Temp Coolant Gauge Unit".

This is the sender for the Engine Temp Gauge.. get it now

The thermovalve (that plastic thinggie) is only applicable to the EGR Valve (only lets it operate when engine is at temp). It has nothing to do with the ECU/Temp gauge or anything else for that matter. Just leaving it in without vaccume connections is perfectly fine.

Pic from Taboo's vaccume elimination FAQ (Thermal Vaccume Valve)

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I strongly suggest you get a Chilton's Haynes as all of this is discussed in depth in Chapter1 (along with diagrams)

 

[Spoolin98]

DSM90AWD, so what your telling me is, from the diagram on post 38, #1 The temp sensor for the ecu(stated by you in post 42), not only tells the ecu what the temperature is it also sends the temp gauge a signal? So according to you, "this has to be working and hooked up or your engine will run like poopy", the car does run, the cooling system works fine. The fan turns on, but the gauge does not work.

 

[femmeDSM]

DSM90AWD, so what your telling me is, from the diagram on post 38, #1 The temp sensor for the ecu(stated by you in post 42), not only tells the ecu what the temperature is it also sends the temp gauge a signal? So according to you, "this has to be working and hooked up or your engine will run like poopy", the car does run, the cooling system works fine. The fan turns on, but the gauge does not work.

The ECT and the Gauge sending unit do not communicate with each other. Both sensors read the temperature of the coolant, but that's all they have in common. The gauge sending unit is directly connected to the temp gauge in the cabin. The ECT is directly connected to the ECU (pin 20 on a 1990. I think it's the same for 91+ as well).

**Sorry, I will stop confusing you by answering questions that you addressed to other people. Haha**

 

[Spoolin98]

Well according to DSM90AWD, from picture on post 38.

#1 Is the Temp sensor for the ECU, this has to be working and hooked up or your engine will run like poopy

#2 As I said above is the Thermovalve for the EGR

#3 Is the A/C fan temp sensor which makes both fans come on high when the engine is running at operating temp and the A/C is on.

The gauge sending unit is not on that list. Thats why I am so confused.

 

[DSM90AWD]

The gauge sending unit is not on that list. Thats why I am so confused.

The gauge sending unit can't be seen from the pic you shot but was clearly illustrated in the diagram in Posts 3, 55 and 56.

This is a pic of mine. Note the positions of all four items (AC Fan Tem Sensor, EGR ThermoValve, ECU Collant Temp Sensor and Dash Coolant Gauge Sender) below:

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Ignore the black zip tied vacume cap to the right of "B". That was my coolant feed to the turbo which I no longer utilize

 

[Spoolin98]

Your telling me that there should be 4 possible things that can be hooked up to the thermostat housing, AC Fan Tem Sensor, EGR ThermoValve, ECU Coolant Temp Sensor and Dash Coolant Gauge Sender. If you take a very close look at the list of pictures I posted on page 1, I do not have 4 spots to connect things.

Off of post 38, Once again, I have:

#1 is the 2 male bent prongs that I have a female connector on. I believe this is the gauge sender.

#2 EGR thermovalve

#3 Is the 1 horizontal male and 1 vertical male, T, with a rubber connector that goes over it.
I am still not positive of which one this is, I believe it is the ECU coolant temp sensor, since I do not have A/C.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Just to add. Looking thru my HAYNES, the Section 6-4 (1990 Turbo) and Section 6-7 (1991-1994 Turbo) clearly illustrate that the Federal and Canadian models were equipped with an EGR Thermo Valve to control it's operation.

On Californa models (All year Turbos), an ECU-controlled solunoid is used to control EGR functions.

This is likely the confusion some were seeing from the pics of a thermostat housing without the thermovalve as those must have been from a California model.

Mine is federal and has the thermovalve (as illustrated in the pic above)

 

[DSM90AWD]

If you take a very close look at the list of pictures I posted on page 1, I do not have 4 spots to connect things

The Gauge sender is to the right of the rubber covered (you're description) plug which is the ECU Temp Sensor. You can't see it from the angle of your pic as it's tucked low and next to the head. A front shot would show it, which is what I posted above.

 

[Spoolin98]

Just to add. Looking thru my HAYNES, the Section 6-4 (1990 Turbo) and Section 6-7 (1991-1994 Turbo) clearly illustrate that the Federal and Canadian models were equipped with an EGR Thermo Valve to control it's operation.

On Californa models (All year Turbos), an ECU-controlled solunoid is used to control EGR functions.

This is likely the confusion some were seeing from the pics of a thermostat housing without the thermovalve as those must have been from a California model.

Mine is federal and has the thermovalve (as illustrated in the pic above)

Thanks for clearing that up, now that makes sense.

 

[Spoolin98]

The Gauge sender is to the right of the rubber covered (you're description) plug which is the ECU Temp Sensor. You can't see it from the angle of your pic as it's tucked low and next to the head. A front shot would show it, which is what I posted above.

In post 15, picture 1 shows the rubber connector well, there is nothing to the right of it. Look at the 4th picture down, it is a front view. There is only 1 sensor facing the front of the car, this is what I believe is the guage sender.

 

[DSM90AWD]

In post 15, picture 1 shows the rubber connector well, there is nothing to the right of it. Look at the 4th picture down, it is a front view. There is only 1 sensor facing the front of the car, this is what I believe is the guage sender.

Unless you have X-Ray vision and can see thru the turbo's rubber coolant line and your TurboXS boost controller, that pic does not show where the coolant gauge plug is located.
I can't lead you any further into the water without drowning you

Seriously though, if you're still confused, call up Josh at JNZ Tuning. He's l~27miles from you in Hatfield, PA, can get you any/all Mitsu factory wiring harnesses/sensors, even do the work for you

 

[Spoolin98]

Let me get some better pictures of this thing, without it in front of me it is hard to not be confused. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.

 

[Spoolin98]

The part I am confused about is I put everything back on exactly where I took it off, and now the gauge does not work. Here are some way better pictures.

http://www.allaboutimports.com/thermo.html

I will post more later.

 

[Spoolin98]

Yea, what John is talking about looks like this:

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Easily eliminated and should get rid of a source of problems.

Do I physically have to remove this part and plug the hole? Or is the EGR blockoff plate enough?

 

[DSM90AWD]

Yea get a pic of the front down low (like mine).

Do I physically have to remove this part and plug the hole? Or is the EGR blockoff plate enough?

Just use a EGR blockoff plate and leave the Thermovalve alone. All it'll be doing is perfectly filling the hole in your thermosat housing.

 

[Spoolin98]

Here is picture from the front, I guess there is a 4th sensor that I never noticed.

http://www.allaboutimports.com/thermo2.html

So do I just have the female connector on the wrong sensor?