Help Doesnt Run interesting story

[kiri]

So about a few months ago I picked up a 95 Talon Tsi Awd from a teenager. The car was in absolute shit and sort of ran (only because it was ghetto to hell with a SAFC and rich as Bill Gates.) I started to fix some of the issues by just replacing simple maintenance parts like plugs, wires, filters etc. But it still runs like all crap. As of now I am just trying to get it to idle right so I can take this project in a right direction. The mods on this car are listed under my name. I am going to include a log file from dsmlink (which I bought to help me figure out wtf is wrong with this thing)

I have looked for vacuum leaks and have already found that the bov is not recirculating and am going to fix today. There are also 2 nipples off the intake pipe that go to nothing and have no clue where they go. Any help is appreciated. I am just looking for help to point me in a better direction where I can do more research and hopefully figure everything out.
The log is only a few seconds because I didn’t want to destroy this motor and just wanted a base idea of what all was going on.

 

[Dhan]

The vac lines on the intake pipe are for venting.

One line goes to the charcoal canister which helps to vent fumes from the gas tank. It is under the battery tray on a 1g.
The second line goes to the valve cover on the passenger side near the thermostat. It helps with relieving pressure inside the engine. A lot of ppl will put a breather filter on there (the messy way) or use a catch can setup to collect oil deposits.

And when you say runs like crap, do you mean while driving, idling, all the time? I'd get a good healthy idle set before driving.

 

[1g-awd-talon]

Thank you I was wondering what that black can was under the battery tray

 

[kiri]

Here are two pics to help understand what I was saying. I have no clue besides that the big one is to attach to the bov.

 

[Dhan]

That horn style bov probably cannot be recirculated in that configuration. You will have to get a different fitting that allows you to attach a hose. Or you can get the stock bpv that came with the 1g cars. They are better than the stock 2g bpv, they're cheap and easy to find, and they're a quality unit.

For plumbing in cramped areas, you can use Wes's spa hose idea...... http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...er/442537-hd-spa-hose-recirculation-tube.html.

The vac lines are what I stated above. Use this diagram to help reinstall the vac lines.....http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...-speed-shop-vacuum-diagram-removal-1g-2g.html

You can cap those nipples off down the road, but for now, I would relay vac lines to get closer to stock.

 

[kiri]

I am going to try the HD Spa hose Idea and use the Taboo diagrams to hopefully fix the vacuum lines.

So besides the recirc hose, and the hose that's already connected (assuming it goes 2 the char canister) and the valve cover vent hose (not hooked up yet) where does the other one go to?

Sorry I am just trying to make sure I got it right and the images from taboo are so small.

When I said it ran like crap I mean 24/7. ( i don't drive it because it can barely idle because of the AFR)

So I adjusted the BISS screw and TPS and now its .63 and 0 (throttle position)

I am going to make a new log file in the morning and post it. I also fixed the VC to intake pipe vacuum leak.

 

[kiri]

Would the ISC cause Idle problems?Would the ISC cause rich/lean conditions? (I tested the ISC today and it is bad)

 

[thearkatek]

Try unplugging your idle switch and see what your idle does. If your ISC is stuck open far enough to cause your engine to want to idle above 1500, your idle switch will cause your computer to run funky. Does your idle surge? Does it rise up to 1500 and then drop, then repeat endlessly?

 

[toppertopper]

1st turn the key on , open dsm link start log (car not started) ..Press the peddle to the floor ..Release , right click on the graph ,tps adjust do it couple times so its at zero throtpos
Maybe someone else can chime in about the maf comp table (maybe pulling to much air leaning out)

 

[bryanwheat]

So are you trying to run it with the recirc connector on the intake un capped? If so than that will cause it to run bad.

 

[Dhan]

If you're sure the ISC is bad, I would definitely replace that. Does the car surge?

BTW: that third nipple () must have been a source for an MBC used by someone in the past who had speed density of something similar. Usually there's a nipple on the MAF itself.

 

[thearkatek]

If he has a GM MAF after the BOV it wouldn't make a difference. Do you have a MAF right at the air filter?

 

[H@xtGSX]

Get rid of that piece of junk BOV and recirculate it first, then cap all of those nipples, make sure the vacuum lines on the throttle body and intake aren't leaking, and make sure the brake booster line isn't leaking. Pull the plugs and look at them, because if it has been running that rich for very long, the plugs are probably fouled up. Check the compression while you have the plugs out and make sure the motor isn't already shot and in need of a rebuild. Make sure you don't have any exhaust leaks, as they mess up the O2 sensor readings. Once everything is buttoned up, boost leak test it and fix what you find, which will likely be the throttle plate shaft seals and couplings on the intake pipe. Change out that IAC valve (isc), make sure the throttle adjustment set screw is there and set right, then get the BISS screw adjusted. Check to make sure the doofus that had it before didn't take out any of the MAF honeycombs. Make sure the thermostat and water temp sensor are functional... And that is about all I can think of that will make it run like diarrhea...

Edit: Holy double post Batman!

 

[kiri]

1st turn the key on , open dsm link start log (car not started) ..Press the peddle to the floor ..Release , right click on the graph ,tps adjust do it couple times so its at zero throtpos
Maybe someone else can chime in about the maf comp table (maybe pulling to much air leaning out)

I said above "So I adjusted the BISS screw and TPS and now its .63 and 0 (throttle position)"
Isnt that the same? Dsmlink said 0 for thro pos when TPS volt was at .63

"So are you trying to run it with the recirc connector on the intake un capped? If so than that will cause it to run bad."
I am going to fix that.

H@xtGSX- I will take your advice, thank you. He did take out the honeycombs but left them in the trunk with other crap. I will re-install them. what nipples?"throttle adjustment set screw is there and set right"which ones opens the plate on the throttle body? That one or the biss? "throttle plate shaft seals and couplings on the intake pipe" wtf are the plate shaft seals?

Is there anyway I can do the http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-turbo-system-intercooler/442537-hd-spa-hose-recirculation-tube.htmlidea?for a temp fix until I can afford to drop some cash on a nice bov, and when I do what bov should I get?

 

[H@xtGSX]

Yes, you could do the spa hose trick but you'll need to seal that trumpet discharge so all the air re-enters the intake when the BOV opens.

There is a screw that sets how far the throttle lever can travel on the throttle body. It is in the brass parts closest to the firewall. There should be a screw where the cable lever hits at 0 throttle. That sets where "0" is.

The nipples I am referring to are the ones on the intake, pre-turbo. Those need to be sealed.

The throttle shaft plate seals are a more advanced topic. Fix what I mentioned, and then look up the throttle plate shaft seals here. They are a supreme pain on the ass, but you can run just fine with them leaking a bit.

The BISS screw is the LAST thing you adjust when you are fixing the idle. Get everything ok with it about 7/8ths closed, then adjust it.

Lastly, yes, PUT THE HONEYCOMBS BACK IN. I swear, that is a rediculous fix for a simple problem. The 2g MAF will support a lot of horsepower, and if you exceed that, get an EVO MAF... Simple as that, and 98% of us never exceed what an EVO MAF can measure.

 

[kiri]

"There is a screw that sets how far the throttle lever can travel on the throttle body. It is in the brass parts closest to the firewall. There should be a screw where the cable lever hits at 0 throttle. That sets where "0" is."
When I set my TPS to .63 and when I was reading throttle position off the link and prior to looking @ the throttle body it was completely closed. (no signs of light etc) -I am assuming I set the "set screw" when I adjusted TPS volts? ( the thing was so off I had to take it off re-adjust it and the throttle body because the link was saying it was at 11%throttle when it wasn't even running with no foot on the pedal.

(I Hope all that made some sense.) Thanks a lot

 

[Xploitn]

Did I miss a post where you described the idle issues in detail? Is it an idle surge (rising and dropping idle)? Is it idling at a high RPM? Or is it misfiring randomly or consistently?

I am a noob, but I was able to fix a friends 1g idle surge by reading the documentation out there and troubleshooting with a multimeter. It was a couple years ago but between the multimeter and symptoms, I was able to saying confidently that he needed to replace his BISS screw (I'm not suggesting this is your problem though!) $15 on Ebay and it was fixed.

Here is the link to the document that I used, if anything it'll help you understand the troubleshooting process for these components

Hopefully you got a good deal on your dsm, and hopefully its good to you once you get these "configuration" issues straightened out!

 

[92AWDTalonTSI]

"There is a screw that sets how far the throttle lever can travel on the throttle body. It is in the brass parts closest to the firewall. There should be a screw where the cable lever hits at 0 throttle. That sets where "0" is."
When I set my TPS to .63 and when I was reading throttle position off the link and prior to looking @ the throttle body it was completely closed. (no signs of light etc) -I am assuming I set the "set screw" when I adjusted TPS volts? ( the thing was so off I had to take it off re-adjust it and the throttle body because the link was saying it was at 11%throttle when it wasn't even running with no foot on the pedal.

(I Hope all that made some sense.) Thanks a lot

The TPS needs to be adjusted to read .63 (0). Not the throttle assembly.

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This is a 1g NA but same principal.

Make sure the idle switch is making contact when the throttle is closed. Adjust if needed. If it is, make sure the throttle body is properly grounded.

 

[thearkatek]

And again, are you running stock MAF? If so that gigantic hole that should be used to recirculate the BOV is going to cause you ALL kinds of problems. You'll probably be measuring half as much air flow at idle as what you are actually getting.

 

[kiri]

yes stock maf. I adjusted the tps to .63 after I made sure the throttle body was closed. It was open a decent amount and made the link say 11% Throttle position when the car was not running or running constantly. So once the throttle body was adjusted I did the tps to .63 That is how I got to .63 zero throttle position when I re-hooked up the link.

The idle issue was before throttle position adjustment idle 3300rpm Now the idle issue is AFR last log was 9.8:1 I am going to fix the bov recirc problem soon as I get time prob fri. I just am trying to cover all angles so I learn as much as possible as fast as possible so I will be able to get her to 14.7:1 this weekend and then hopefully take it from there.

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

[thearkatek]

Jeese why would it be idling that rich with a giant hole after the MAF? I was expecting lean at idle due to the extra air. Did you plug that hole already?

 

[kiri]

No I haven't plugged the hole yet, I will do that Friday when I get time away from work to go to Home Depot. I believe it was running that rich because the maf comp tab on dsmlink has the adj% at Zero for the hz. ?

 

[92AWDTalonTSI]

You can recirculate the Bov to solve that problem or move to a 3 inch GM MAF and have atmospheric venting.