(HELP!!)Bent Vavles, Head Gasket, or what? Brand new built motor.

[2g 6 bolt swap]

Ok here we go. Motor is fully built and has 0 miles on it. All my aftermarket parts are in my profile. There is too much to list. I got my motor in last weekend and installed everything to spec. For the first start up we had the timing set to 5 degrees advanced and it still sounded like crap. Ran like the timing was off. Double checked timing marks and all were lined up still. Even checked the CAS for being 180 out and it wasnt. After i checked that i looked at the firing order and it was correct. Even tried swap coil wires and it didnt even start. After thinking of what could be wrong i did a compression test and found 0-170-170-170. Even tried a wet comp. test on that cylinder and still noting. I did reuse my mls metal head gasket from last summer that was ran on my car but it was only like for 5 mins.(Cracked ring lands on stock motor thinking it was a headgasket) MLS head gasket sat out soaked in oil for awhile and i took a chance putting it back on and was unsure if i could reuse it. My block was resufed when i had it bored and i had my head check for flatness, which it was. If it was the head gasket wouldnt it get atleast some compression? My buddy was saying i may have bent valves, but my timing was never off. Also it wasnt making any tapping noise or anything when we were timing it. Took my head off to check out my valves and pistons, and found no signs of contact. When i turn my cam gears and the valves sit flush against all the seats and i check the lifters to see if one is stuck open and they all look ok. Any advice would be great. Thanks!

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Well, you may have exhaust and intake cams mixed?
Could be the head gasket, but you would hear it blow through, it'd be loud as shit.
the only other option is bad rings.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

Cams are not mixed up i marked then before i took them out. The CAS would not also fit into the end of the camshaft if they were mixed because the intake has the notch in it. Like i said, this is a fresh motor with Wiseco 1400HD .20 over pistons, Eagle H beam rods, ACL race bearings,MLS metal headgasket, Brian Crower Stainless Steal Valves, GSC Power Divison Beehive Valve springs w titianum retainers, 3g lifters, ferrea valve seals, HKS 264's. I did the rings and everything myself. Rings were all done by me. Followed wiseco ring gaping and ring alignment exactly. Also if it were the rings the wet compression test would have changed the compression and it did not. All machine work was done by a well known machine shop for dsms in my area. All the other cylinders compression were good. Thats were i just dont get it. 1 out the 4 cylinders has no compression. I want to go buy a new head gasket asap. to see if it fixes it. If i do that tho and find out it wasnt the head gasket, i just wasted 100 bucks or so. Valves still look brand new and all sit flush with seats. Is it possible timing could play any part in this? I thought always if the timing was off it would be 2 or all of the cylinders having no compression. Not just one cylinder. Thats were i am lost. Any other suggestions would be great. Thanks for the help.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Did you bleed the lifters?
There must be an issue in the valve train.
It can't seal for some reason. Like I said, if it were the head gasket you would hear it.
That's what you are left with, valves, lifters, or you ####ed the rings. Which is it?

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

When exactly are you saying i would hear it? During the compression test? And yes i did bleed the lifters. The wet test didnt help the compression. Its not the rings because the compression would have went up a little, not be at 0. The valves all look fine with no marks on them.

 

[BogusSVO]

fluid test the valves with the cams in ... close the valves fully on the seat and pour wter/solvant into the runner.. if a drop or 2 forms in 3-5 secs your fine.. if it rolls out like a little river you have valve seat issues

 

[donniekak]

It's a valve sealing issue. Maybe the lifters need bled, or it could be more serious. Rings will not cause 0 compression. You could install pistons with no rings at all and get more than 0.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

ok i will def try the water and solvent today. When you say pour it in the runner. Do you mean where the exhaust and intake flow?

 

[anteversion]

Water into the intake port to check intake valve. Into the exhaust port to check the exhaust valve.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

ok thanks. i am going to go do that right now. I'll let you guys know what i find.
Bad news guys. I did the fluid test on exhaust side of the head and the valves on the 4th cylinder are leaking fluid bad. Should i check the intake side as well? If it is just the 2 exhaust valves does anyone know if i could special order those. Or would i have to buy all new exhaust valves again. I feel so stupid now

 

[dsmnthamakin]

you should be able to buy just the valves that you need. Also it is probably a good idea to do the other side since your there. Better safe than sorry. keep us updated GL

 

[1995gsx20g]

i don't wanna sound like a dick but well known or not i always check to make sure the machine shop got it right. people make mistakes. and a good buddy of mine learned the hard way.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

ok so i did the fluid test on the intake side. The 4th cylinder leaks as well. So now its leaking from both number 4 exhaust and intake. I took my cams out and tried the fluid tested again on both sides and it didnt leak at all. Not a single drop. Are my cams the culprit? or are the valves bent. i took one intake valve out and it looks perfect. Spins on flat surface nice too. Is it possible the cams were not installed properly and if so, could it cause 1 cylinder to have 0 compression?

 

[6BoltSleeper]

yes, if the cam lobes do not open and close the valves when they're supposed to, then when you're piston comes up to TDC, there's basically an open door for the compressed air to go though, thus no compression. If you have problems on both intake and exhaust side, I'm seriously doubting that both cams are bad, so it's probably gonna be lifters, valves, or valve seats, just my .02, Good Luck

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

But when i removed both of the cams and then did a fluid test again to both sides, it did not leak any more. When the cams were in it leaked from both cyl. 4 intake and exhaust valves when they were to be closed when you turn the cam. So wouldnt it have to be something with the cams since those valves are not sealing properly for compression. The head also had a valve job and all the valves are brand new.

 

[6BoltSleeper]

do you know anyone with some stock cams you can try just to be sure? there is only so many things it could be, start with the cams and work your way down. Also, get out your manual and start checking valve spring height, and all other specs in the head on that cylinder, then compare to other cylinders, let us know how it goes.

 

[donniekak]

Bleed the lifters.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

why would the lifters cause this?

 

[viprez586]

Cylinder Leak down Test

$40 tool at harbor freight.
Machine shops can make mistakes...like piston to wall clearance.

Case in point the CLT test will tell you exactly where that pressure is going.

 

[donniekak]

why would the lifters cause this?

Because they aren't really "lifters". The are hydraulic lash adjusters. If they have to much oil in them, they won't allow the valve to close completly. They are there so we don't have to do valve lash adjustments. They need to start with less than enough pressure for zero valve lash, they then pump up with oil pressure to eliminate the valve lash. If they aren't bled down first it's like over tightning adjustable pushrods on a v8.

 

[6BoltSleeper]

Because they aren't really "lifters". The are hydraulic lash adjusters. If they have to much oil in them, they won't allow the valve to close completly. They are there so we don't have to do valve lash adjustments. They need to start with less than enough pressure for zero valve lash, they then pump up with oil pressure to eliminate the valve lash. If they aren't bled down first it's like over tightning adjustable pushrods on a v8.

hydraulic lash adjusters, that's what I meant. Thanks donniekak

 

[donniekak]

hydraulic lash adjusters, that's what I meant. Thanks donniekak

I call them lifters all the time, but the term can be decieving.

 

[DSM-sagacious]

Your valve seats could have been improperly installed, meaning they are recessed too far into the head.

 

[2g 6 bolt swap]

What is the proper way to bleed them. Soak them in a bucket of clean oil and then put them in? What can be to much oil in them?

 

[6BoltSleeper]

Found this on another site, hope it helps:

Pull the lifter out of the head by hand
Remove all oil from the new lifter - this also applies if you are cleaning and reusing the old lifters. Get a large paperclip and straighten it out. Insert it into the top hole of the lifter until it bottoms, then press on it lightly - you can now easily collapse the lifter with the paperclip still in place. If cleaning and reusing the old lifters:
Submerge the lifter in cleaning solution (brakeparts cleaner, carb cleaner, acetone). Soak it for as long as you can, preferably up to a day or more.
Insert the paperclip, depress the internal valve, and pump the lifter up and down until it moves freely and the fluid coming out is clean.
If you have the time, repeat the above at least one more time.
Remove the lifter, turn it upside down, depress the paperclip, and pump the lifter until no more cleaning fluid comes out. Set the lifter aside to dry for a while.
Submerge the lifter in oil, depress the paperclip, and pump the lifter to fill it with oil.
Remove the lifter, turn it upside down, depress the paperclip, and pump the lifter until no more oil comes out. This will leave a thin film of oil for startup.
The lifters will clatter for a few minutes at startup when empty like this, but that is better than having them too full of oil and bending some valves.
Drop the lifter back in the bore - it doesn't really matter how you line up the oiling holes in the lifter, they rotate under normal use.