Head rebuild kit?

[I-luv-em-all]

I am going to get my motor rebuilt some time soon hopefully, I am just wondering what the best route to take is. I was just going to but the 1g 6 bolt rebuilt kit from SBR, but is it all bottom end parts. So I was just wondering if their is such thing as a head rebuild kit or something like that. Or would you just recommend getting new valves and leave the rest of the head stock or what? Any thoughts, ideas, recommendations, thanks.

 

[GTM]

I am going to get my motor rebuilt some time soon hopefully, I am just wondering what the best route to take is. I was just going to but the 1g 6 bolt rebuilt kit from SBR, but is it all bottom end parts. So I was just wondering if their is such thing as a head rebuild kit or something like that. Or would you just recommend getting new valves and leave the rest of the head stock or what? Any thoughts, ideas, recommendations, thanks.

Before you go guessing what parts you need it would be wise to do some tests and tell us more _why_ you need to spend money.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[MNGSX]

Id do the lowest level here at minimum. The valves need to be reground and bronze guides and viton stem seals are the way to go.

http://www.engintecs.com/html/dsm_heads.html

Just send them a head to swap as a core.

 

[GTM]

Id do the lowest level here at minimum. The valves need to be reground and bronze guides and viton stem seals are the way to go.

http://www.engintecs.com/html/dsm_heads.html

Just send them a head to swap as a core.

Don't you think it would be best to ask how many miles, oil use/pressure, compression, overheat, and 50 other questions before just tossing out he should spend $600-$700 on head work? No professional would endorse this unless they were just interested in spending someone else's money pulling the head only to find out the pistons and rings are N/G and the valves only need lapping and seals.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[MNGSX]

I wont do any performance build on an engine without a fresh valve job, bronze guides and HQ stem seals.

If it was just a repair job at some shop for a DD you are right but on a boost happy DSMers car not.

 

[GTM]

I wont do any performance build on an engine without a fresh valve job, bronze guides and HQ stem seals.

If it was just a repair job at some shop for a DD you are right but on a boost happy DSMers car not.

Unless you know something I don't there was anything said about a "performance build" in this thread. To my knowledge they have bronze quides already. I saw no mention of knurling guides to improve performance rather than replacing them. It also reduces the amount you have to grind on the seats to get proper angles.

It seems you are too ready to sell something without gathering adequate information. I would be interested in knowing your relationship with the url given?
Cheers,
GTM

 

[I-luv-em-all]

Well here is some info. The motor is pretty much shot.

-car has a little stumble to it during normal driving, pretty sure it need a new head gasket because that is the only thing I haven't done yet. I keep the car right up to tune always, new plugs, wires, fuel filter, vac lines elim, boost leak tests, clean trottle body, fresh oil ect.

-engine has hardly any compression left, it has about 85, 55, 90, 95 all pretty much the same when a wet test is done.

-with full stock exhaust with cat and everything is doesn't blow blue, but when I ran a open downpipe last summer it definatly puffed the blue.

A rebuild is definatly not a bad move at this point. But for a rebuild in my city is way way to expensive to get done and takes way to long to get the parts ordered (roughly over 2 months and I don't wan't to be without my car for that long). I was just going to order that kit and let them machine it all. But if my valves are burn up and everything what do I do then??

 

[GTM]

Well here is some info. The motor is pretty much shot.

-car has a little stumble to it during normal driving, pretty sure it need a new head gasket because that is the only thing I haven't done yet. I keep the car right up to tune always, new plugs, wires, fuel filter, vac lines elim, boost leak tests, clean trottle body, fresh oil ect.

-engine has hardly any compression left, it has about 85, 55, 90, 95 all pretty much the same when a wet test is done.
...

definatly puffed the blue.

A rebuild is definatly not a bad move at this point. But for a rebuild in my city is way way to expensive to get done and takes way to long to get the parts ordered (roughly over 2 months and I don't wan't to be without my car for that long). I was just going to order that kit and let them machine it all. But if my valves are burn up and everything what do I do then??

I would do or have a "block check" done to confirm the blown headgasket that you mention.

Are your compression readings in Kpa or PSI? I don't have a gauge in front but those are very low if PSI and the car would be hard to start much less safely make it down the road.

Seeing your address I now realize you may be closer to the truth after a recent mailing experience I had to Canada. I understand some of this is in part to 9-11, you might check with UPS if it's available for they may still be able to provide better service.

The problem you will have is not knowing how bad the cylrs are worn until you get the head off. This may seem unreasonable but you could order standard pistons and rings and then first oversize with the understanding one set can be returned.

There are several listings on eBay for new and used pistons and some with rods, so it's not like you can't start buying some parts in advance. Depending on wear you may be able to get a good set of used pistons shot peened which will make them slightly larger, but they must be matched to rings. You have a lot of options to consider including what your wallet can afford.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Suparata]

Mitsubishi heads do not have bronze guides from the factory .
I’m surprised MNGSX recommended us especially since we had a few arguments on various subjects so he is not selling anything. He does however like bronze guides and there is a good reason for that. From what he posted on this forum, it also seems that he does his homework regarding what these engines “like” to have done to be both powerful and reliable.

I-luv-em-all needs to have somebody look at his head/engine and make a “qualified” call on what needs to be done before he goes ahead and buys all sorts a so called “kits”. It does sound like his problems are in the head area but it may be more than that.

 

[I-luv-em-all]

I have a bunch of parts coming from Slowboy Racing right know, that I am going to get installed when the engine is getting rebuilt (BS elim kit, SBR HD 3500 clutch, 2g exhaust manifold and new TB and lower injector seal gaskets).

I guess I am going to be with out a car for a while and get it all checked out, then maybe order what I need, once I figue out what it needs.

P.S. I have a parts car 1990 tsi awd with what seems to be a JDM but that smokes blue too, I pulled the head off that and it looks really good, no goldish tint at all, it is all silver and nice, it has a little carbon on the valves but what can you do, nothing a little seafoam can't fix . Should I get that head checked out and see what that maybe needs and just swap the heads. But the only reason I don't really want to get that head rebuilt is that I don't like the 90 cams, is their any way to tell if it is the original motor or jdm. Thanks for all of your smart thoughts and ideas.

 

[GTM]

Mitsubishi heads do not have bronze guides from the factory .

...
I-luv-em-all needs to have somebody look at his head/engine and make a “qualified” call on what needs to be done before he goes ahead and buys all sorts a so called “kits”. It does sound like his problems are in the head area but it may be more than that.

I would like to think I've seen enough bronze guides, what do these look like to you that were on my son's TSi?
http://community.webshots.com/photo/315249027/315250426DncsfB

By all means he needs to have a professional give a first hand look even if it costs him $40-$60 for the diagnosis it will be money well spent.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Those look like factory steel guides in your sons TSi to me. Bronze ones look like a shiny new penny, and I have never seen a bronze guide crack.

 

[GTM]

...

But the only reason I don't really want to get that head rebuilt is that I don't like the 90 cams, is their any way to tell if it is the original motor or jdm. Thanks for all of your smart thoughts and ideas.

Actually if you want to use factory cams then mix and match years from stick and auto.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17110&highlight=cam+differences

Of note are specs in these posts but reading through you will find some of the automatics had some more desirable features so you can sort out what you want.
#8,
#10
#19

You may find good used factory cams at an attractive price without getting into some sort of monster grind that won't hold an idle below 2,000 rpm. I can't help you with the JDM question but there are numbers on the cams which might help.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

Those look like factory steel guides in your sons TSi to me. Bronze ones look like a shiny new penny, and I have never seen a bronze guide crack.

Hi RB

Naw, just a pretty good alloy, if you saw guides the color of copper they were probably plated though you can pickle them and extract some of the other alloys (reverse plating). I've seen bronze guides mushroom and peel over like a hollow-point bullet. I've had to make my own guides and seats along with knurling them as well for some exotic bikes I've owned. Most desirable is to find something that is close and tool to fit. ... necessity IS the mother of invention.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Suparata]

This picture( http://www.engintecs.com/gallery/album11/Jed_002 ) shows the difference between the intake cast iron guides and exhaust manganese bronze.
I’ve never seen a bronze guide crack and you shouldn’t knurl bronze guides.
Again, factory Mitsubishi guides are cast iron and they do take a beating especially on the exhaust side. They are also sized on the “loose” side from the factory because longevity is not necessarily the manufacturer’s goal. All they care about is to be “close enough” so it will run without any chance of the valve “sticking” in the guides.
Mitch.

 

[GTM]

...
I’ve never seen a bronze guide crack and you shouldn’t knurl bronze guides.
Again, factory Mitsubishi guides are cast iron and they do take a beating especially on the exhaust side. They are also sized on the “loose” side from the factory because longevity is not necessarily the manufacturer’s goal. All they care about is to be “close enough” so it will run without any chance of the valve “sticking” in the guides.

I've seen chunks break out of them both intake and exhaust. Most of my 40+ years in the repair auto industry have always been with aluminum heads and bronze guides. With 90% certainty most of the steel guides I've encountered were on Detroit iron. There was no doubt what I took out of my son's carwere bronze and there is no doubt what I put in were steel. This was purely economics on his part because the bronze were $3 and the steel were 95¢. All I can conclude is someone must have replaced them though it must have been done some few years before.

I know some shops don't like to knurl bronze guides but when combined with laterally sanded valve stems you will get less friction and higher rpm before valve float. With good seals you shouldn't have oil loss past the guides. As stated before I've done it on both overhead cams and exotic pushrod engines. They didn't wear out or suffer while in my ownership but would they go 100,000 miles I cannot say. I've always sized exhaust more loose because of the additional head extremes even with sodium cooled stems.

I don't claim to be a DSM expert so the rational for them using steel guides escapes me especially in an aluminum head if for no other reason but to save on costs.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Hi RB

Naw, just a pretty good alloy,

Hi GTM (damn can't abbreviate it)

Hm. I wish I had my other computer hooked up so I could show you the pics of mine. I guess they are a more goldish color than anything. Did you take the guides out of your sons head and take pics of them? I still swear they are OEM or equivalent judging by the pic provided.

 

[MNGSX]

Mitsubishi heads do not have bronze guides from the factory .
I’m surprised MNGSX recommended us especially since we had a few arguments on various subjects so he is not selling anything. He does however like bronze guides and there is a good reason for that. From what he posted on this forum, it also seems that he does his homework regarding what these engines “like” to have done to be both powerful and reliable.

I-luv-em-all needs to have somebody look at his head/engine and make a “qualified” call on what needs to be done before he goes ahead and buys all sorts a so called “kits”. It does sound like his problems are in the head area but it may be more than that.

I actually think you have the least BS and the most understandable core offerings of any web shop...

Everybody has things they like that worked well for them that others have'nt tried and also every good to excelllent head shop I have ever seen swears by the honed bronze guide.