Hard to start, Car putters along, electrical power lost, gauges going crazy as am I!

[ClipseAPG]

Hey guys I don't know where to start. I've had bad issues regarding my car being very hard to start (fuel pressure not holding due to fp or afpr, or maybe a faulty isc, who knows??) as well as the infamous auto-rev feature that came with our cars. I went out today to check if I had fuel pressure while starting (I have an aftermarket AFPR) and I realized the gauge on my AFPR is done for so I tried adjusting the AFPR without the gauge to see if I experienced a change - nothing. At this point I went back inside but later I needed to run an errand only to try and as usual it took my hours of cranking for my car to start. Then however, everything gets even better, the car starts to putter. It seems the turbo isn't working (as every amateur to a boost leak describes) however, it doesn't seem to be a boost leak. I will be doing a boost leak test to make sure but what else could this be??? I started getting all of these weird symptoms such as if my car had the power of an electric scooter, my interior lights all turned off (aftermarket gauge lights didn't turn on, when I turned on my blinker, the rpm and speedo needles went crazy up-down-up-down, every CEL turned on at different times (not all at one time) and my tach would barely register a change when I stomped on the throttle pedal. The car seems like it has a little more power when I'm OFF the throttle pedal! When I rev the engine, the tach barely moves and the engine sounds like a go-cart. I could barely move along in traffic, I don't know what to do I have my first day of work tomorrow at a job that I can't make anything but the best impression at so a lack of transportation is a big blockade in accomplishing that. I need an answer! I hope this turns out to be some easy fix as many of my issues have turned out to be Thanks in advance for the help! Also, if I haven't described anything well enough let me know, I'll be checking back every second!

edit: I took the car out once it got the chance to cool off and it wouldn't start. I heard a lot of clicks tried and tried, but nothing. So I jumped the car again and the car ran ok for a little bit. I think this issue may be electrical-based. The car still revs in a strange fashion when it's under battery power from the jumper car. It's very slow in decreasing revs. Also, once I took the jumper cables off and took it for a spin, same problem. When I stomp on the gas pedal the car is ridiculously slow and starts to sputter/backfire/etc.. it almost sounds like a rev-limiter (except very slow) until I lay off the gas pedal, then it immediately stops sputtering. The car also seems to getting VERY HOT, VERY quick. The gauges and everything also seem to stop working once the car got un-hooked from the jumper cables. I did the saturn alternator mod about a month or two ago as well as a new battery last year so I don't think the charging system is dysfunctional although I'll get a multi-meter and check tomorrow. Could this be an ECU or sensor issue?? I appreciate the help, thanks!

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

You need to check your voltage to see if your alternator is up to par. Sounds like it's not doing its job. You should see 13.8-14.2 volts at the battery with the engine running and maybe even up to 14.5 volts. If you are seeing any less your alternator is the problem or your wiring to/from it has a problem. So yeah, your first step should be to get a multimeter and check your system voltage. Let us know what you find out.... Good luck

 

[DSM1G90]

Bet the ECU took a dump as well ...

 

[ClipseAPG]

I took the ECU out and looked at it and it looks healthy, how can I test if it went out on me? Also, I'm checking the battery and alternator tomorrow to see if they're the culprits.

 

[DSM1G90]

It can be healthy in appearance, but the internals could be blown - like the drivers and other components.

..what happened with mine - looked good but had blown ground traces that I couldn't see, but a bench tech found them immediately with circuit testing. Got the traces repaired and now works like a champ.

Got a buddy with the same kind of car with the same ECU? Borrow his and see what happens. Or, to be on the safe side, take his out and put yours in and see if his car then acts up.

..just some areas to look into ... - good luck-DSM

 

[luv2rallye]

Also check the alternator fuse (stock is 100A one) and that your grounds from battery to body and engine are good (disconnect both ends of both battery cables, clean (including battery post), tighten).

 

[ClipseAPG]

I checked my alt fuse and it's good, also the terminals are making solid connection with the system. I have no one to switch ECU's with down here is there a way to test the ECU with a circuit tester? A have a multi-meter, would that work?

 

[steve]

With a multimeter there isn't much of the ECU you can test so focus on the system voltage.

What voltage do you see at the battery with everything off?
What voltage do you see at the battery when cranking?
What voltage do you see at the battery when the car is idling?
Does it change if you turn on the lights and blower motor?

 

[ClipseAPG]

I'm sorry for not being able to get these numbers yet, I need to be able to find a time when I'm not working and I can borrow my fiance's car. Anyways, I know the stock alternator is wired to the brake light and my saturn alternator was wired according to TurboGlenn's guide so my saturn alt is also connected to the brake light. Reason I'm saying this is because my brake light goes on and off constantly and I'm uncertain as to whether or not that may further support the hypothesis that my alternator is YET AGAIN my problem . (Could my wiring of the alt have caused this? I wired the L wire to the black wire from the stock connector and the red S wire directly to the battery.) Maybe some wiring was damaged due to my alt reading 12v from the battery and constantly over-working? (as I understand it?)\

Thanks guys!

 

[ClipseAPG]

Hey guys, I'll be testing the alt and battery today, I can FINALLY get a car to take to advanced today... Also, I took some pictures of my ECU, could this small amount of corrosion be the cause of my troubles? How can I get it checked without switching it for another as that's not possible for me.

<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/?action=view&current=20100715200011.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/20100715200011.jpg" border="0" alt="2G DSM EPROM ECU"></a>

<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/?action=view&current=20100715195949.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/20100715195949.jpg" border="0" alt="2G DSM EPROM ECU"></a>

<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/?action=view&current=20100715195930.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/20100715195930.jpg" border="0" alt="2G DSM EPROM ECU"></a>

<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/?action=view&current=20100715195908.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/20100715195908.jpg" border="0" alt="2G DSM EPROM ECU"></a>

<a href="http://s1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/?action=view&current=20100715195857.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y317/franciscoapg/DSM%20Trouble/20100715195857.jpg" border="0" alt="2G DSM EPROM ECU"></a>

 

[steve]

None of that is corrosion, it's the conformal coating they dip the board into after manufacturing.
As you can see, it's thicker and bubbled in some places but that's normal.

 

[SBR Joe]

Post some pics of the top of the ECU, mainly the 3 capacitors that tend to leak. Does the ECU smell like sea food? Thats a toll tell sign of leaking battery acid from the caps.

 

[ClipseAPG]

The top of the ECU is completely fine, no corrosion, no leaks, and no fishy smell. Can I assume my ECU is A+ then? . Also, I tested my battery and alternator, and both tested defective so I'll be replacing them tomorrow. My alternator was putting out 11-12v on load at advanced auto parts, but even BEFORE I put it in the car, their machines deemed it defective however I got it tested elsewhere when I walked out of advanced (and it tested fine) and it worked fine in the car too (for about a month) until now. I guess I just don't trust the accuracy of advanceds' machines and I don't want to pay for a new one when the cause of my problem could lay elsewhere. However, should I assume their machine is spot on and that the cause of my problem IS in fact the alternator?

 

[steve]

Until you make some measurements now there is little to go on.

The symptoms are strongly suggesting that the system voltage is dropping but without some hard data who knows for sure.

 

[SBR Joe]

The top of the ECU is completely fine, no corrosion, no leaks, and no fishy smell. Can I assume my ECU is A+ then? . Also, I tested my battery and alternator, and both tested defective so I'll be replacing them tomorrow. My alternator was putting out 11-12v on load at advanced auto parts, but even BEFORE I put it in the car, their machines deemed it defective however I got it tested elsewhere when I walked out of advanced (and it tested fine) and it worked fine in the car too (for about a month) until now. I guess I just don't trust the accuracy of advanceds' machines and I don't want to pay for a new one when the cause of my problem could lay elsewhere. However, should I assume their machine is spot on and that the cause of my problem IS in fact the alternator?

Normally yes, that pretty much ensures that the ECU is ok in terms of that.

But your battery and alternator testing crapola are going to fix your problem for sure if they both tested and scored a big old FAIL.

And the variance in machines may just be the alternator...i had one just recently go on my buddys 1g and he would have to free rev it before he did a pull to get it to juice up so it didnt kill power to everything through the pull, while having low voltage. Sometimes it read like 13.9, sometimes it read 11v, i made sure to keep an eye on it through link, and it was always changing. Might be the same circumstance with you.

 

[GRAVEDIGGER]

Until you make some measurements now there is little to go on.

The symptoms are strongly suggesting that the system voltage is dropping but without some hard data who knows for sure.

Exactly Basically what I said to do four days ago.
Just to reiterate: If you ain't gettin 13.8+ volts with the engine running, the alternator is junk.

 

[steve]

If you ain't gettin 13.8+ volts with the engine running, the alternator is junk.

On a 2G it's a little more involved since the ECU can turn the alternator off but if it's not charging when the car as an electrical load on it then it's bad.

I've yet to see a 2G ECU cause a problem with the alternator but it's possible, just very very unlikely.

 

[ClipseAPG]

Alright guys, thanks a lot. As of now I have hit a roadblock- I don't have the funds to get a new alternator and apparently, no junkyards in the Orlando area (I called at least like 20-30 of them) have any turbo eclipses in their yard, so until I find one I won't be able to go any further SBR Joe, are you in Sanford? Do you (or anyone actually) know of any junk yards or places where I could find a used alt (for a decent price) around the Orlando area? Thanks a lot guys!

 

[ClipseAPG]

Alright guys, no more starting issue a new alternator and battery later, the car started up and my electrical system seemed to be working fine EXCEPT, the radio would turn off only twice the whole test drive I took it on, it seemed like it only did it on a wide and fast turn, is there any relation? I don't know... the car had it's power back, it drove fine. Once I started it after the first half of my drive however, the car was tough to start, it would turn over and the rpms would be at like 200 ish but then I would have to press the throttle with only a slight response before rpms would decrease again then it dies but finally I start it and gas it until the car turns to normal. So...all is well THEN, I drive the car all the way home and as I turn around to back up and begin doing so, I hear a slight sound as if you shook a small ball bearing in a plastic case ( best way to describe it haha) next thing I know, smoke's pouring out from the hood when I open it. The smoke wasn't too much until I revved it up a little bit. Also, the coolant temp was 300 degrees. The coolant reservoir was almost empty and after turning the car off with a hot engine I hear a lot of like chugging as if the cooling system was depressurizing. Also, I took the plug wires off (thin white smoke came out here too hell- everything in the engine bay was HOT HOT HOT) and the end of the third wire boot was MELTED! Was this just a simple over heating or am I looking at a larger issue (again...) also If I should be moving this to a new thread let me know. Thanks a lot guys!

 

[DSM1G90]

Hope you didn't pop a HG ... that chugging sound was prob the coolant actually boiling in the block itself if you were at 300 degrees ....

 

[mad4g63t]

I'm having a similar issue with no results yet. SUX