gsx vs. gst on the highway

[Spdrcr7882]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but i couldn't find it. If a gsx and a gs-t raced on the highway and they weighed the same and had the same hp to the wheels, would there be a winner. I know people are always sayin that awd sux on the highway, but horsepower is horsepower, regardless of the number of wheels it is being put to. There is the matter of gears though, which might give the gs-t the advantage. Or would it?
THanx
Justin

 

[DSMeclipse4G63]

if they were making the exact same whp and exact same weight it would be a driver race.... the gsx has drivline loss(more then fwd) so I would think with traction the gst would still pull ahead but not much if at all.
Andrew

 

[WI_99'GST]

gst

 

[Siberian]

The GSX weighs more. Once traction isn't an issue, the GS-T will be slightly faster.

Well, right up to the GS-Ts 130mph(?) fuel-cutoff anyway, ...

 

[kpt4321]

There are a couple of things to keep in mind here.

First of all, note that AWD has more drivetrain losses than FWD. So, if the two cars have the same CRANK horsepower, the GS-T will have more wheel horsepower.

However, with the same whp (wheel horsepower) then all that matters is weight and gearing. The GS-T is lighter, so it will accelerate faster. It's also geared longer, so it can go faster up top (although an AWD can do 160, so the longer gearing really won't matter).

Something that may be of interest is that the faster a car is going (and the closer you get to top speed) the less weight matters, and the more horsepower matter. A car with a good power-to-weight ratio does well at lower speeds, but a car with a crappier power to weight ratio but more total power will likely have a top speed (given the same gearin and aerodynamics). Weight is also not a factor AT ALL in top speed, it just changes how long it takes to get there.

 

[dave99gst]

gst on hiway ..
and its 142 mph

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

Read his post people. He asked if they have the same horse AND weigh the same.

I believe they would tie, maybe the GST would pull ahead by a few feet after a long while but for the most part they would be equal.

Often you'll hear that the GSX has significant powerloss through the added drivetrain but it is actually very minuscule.

When Pruven got their AWD dyno they tested a GSX that put down 506 whp, they removed the transfer case and it put down 511whp to the front two wheels. That's only a 5whp difference.

The only real difference is the weight.

 

[Spdrcr7882]

Wow, I was thinkin there was a larger power loss with awd than that. That's a great fact that i have never heard. That makes me that much happier to own a AWD. So, the gearing on the gs-t won't give it an advantage on a highway run?
Thanx
Justin

 

[98RedGs]

Originally posted by Jimmy Jr.
Read his post people. He asked if they have the same horse AND weigh the same.

I've read this multiple times but I'm still trying to think of how a GSX will weigh the exact same as a GS-T without weight mods. Trust me... the gsx is one heavy biotch compared to a gs-t because of the awd components.

kpt4321 you summed it up very well.
Good explaining.

 

[90DSMTurboFWD]

Yeah I dont think he thought his original post all the way through. The only way they could wiegh the same is if the driver of the GST was fat as hell and was rolling on some 17 inch cast iron rims. Taht or the GSX would have some major wieght reduction.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

His original post makes plenty of sense, it was a hypothetical and though it would take a good deal of time and money the 300lb weight difference wouldn't be all that hard to make up.

 

[DSMNightmare]

Originally posted by Jimmy Jr.
Read his post people. He asked if they have the same horse AND weigh the same.

I believe they would tie, maybe the GST would pull ahead by a few feet after a long while but for the most part they would be equal.

Often you'll hear that the GSX has significant powerloss through the added drivetrain but it is actually very minuscule.

When Pruven got their AWD dyno they tested a GSX that put down 506 whp, they removed the transfer case and it put down 511whp to the front two wheels. That's only a 5whp difference.

The only real difference is the weight.

Did Pruven have any driveline lightening done? Things like alum driveshaft or CF driveshaft? I would think that even though the transfercase is taken out you still have the additional gearing to the outputshaft and whatnot. I would love to see more cars like 2Gs tested and see if it makes a difference.

Most FWDs have a speed limiter of 130-135mph give or take. AWDs have seen top speeds of around 170mph give or take. Shep runs 160s in the 1/4 mile with this Mitsu tranny and other than the supporting mods he has not added a longer 5th gear so you get an idea of what the top speed is. Friend of mine spoke to him and said that he could really feel the limits of the 5th gear when he was in the 160s. TRE claims thier 5th gear is good for 208mph. FWD might get there faster but to make the hp to get to 208 you would have traction issues at 55mph in a FWD

 

[Spdrcr7882]

Jimmy hit the nail on the head, it is a hypothetical question, i know there is a weight difference, but i was tryin to figure out if the gear ratio in the gs-t was helpful for highway runs. Of course there always could be a gs-t with a big stereo and heavy rims and 3 people in the car, and there could be my awd with light rims and all weight reductions done. And that sounds like it might be pretty even. I am referring to racin on the street, since there obviously can't be passingers at a drag strip and there also can't be a highway run on a 1/4 strip.

 

[Jimmy Jr.]

The car that Pruven dynoed had no drivetrain mods.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by DSMNightmare
FWD might get there faster but to make the hp to get to 208 you would have traction issues at 55mph in a FWD

Gimme a break, FWD's dont have that much trouble hooking up, especially at 55mph. At that speed Im sure that some nice meaty tires would get the job done with a LSD. If you are going to make that kind of statement then you may as well say that a 1000hp Supra will have problems hooking up at 55. You AWD guys cant stand having a disadvantage on any front. You think AWD is faster off the line AND in the long haul now. I think AWD rules from stop light to stop light but not highway.

 

[kpt4321]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
You AWD guys cant stand having a disadvantage on any front. You think AWD is faster off the line AND in the long haul now. I think AWD rules from stop light to stop light but not highway.

The difference isn't very big at high speeds, but it sure is from a stop.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by kpt4321
The difference isn't very big at high speeds, but it sure is from a stop.

I totally agree but there "is" a difference.

BTW you are right in saying that weight doesnt really matter at higher speeds as so much as the horsepower needed to over come the wind resistance at higher speeds.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

I had to take a pee break but now Im back.

I just wanted to point out that a high horsepower FWD could also benefit from a nice front spoiler set up to take advantage of the down force that would be generated by doin 55+. This would close the traction gap a little more.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by RiceKiller_TSi
I had to take a pee break but now Im back.

I just wanted to point out that a high horsepower FWD could also benefit from a nice front spoiler set up to take advantage of the down force that would be generated by doin 55+. This would close the traction gap a little more.

Only bad thing is you sacrifice acceleration for downforce, due to aerodynamic drag. Your best bet for getting better grip @ low speeds is upgrading your suspension, tires, and LSD (not the blotter kind, the metal kind ).

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by leet
Only bad thing is you sacrifice acceleration for downforce, due to aerodynamic drag. Your best bet for getting better grip @ low speeds is upgrading your suspension, tires, and LSD (not the blotter kind, the metal kind ).

No, dont get me wrong I meant at higher speeds, but yeah down force will cost you a little. Im content with my setup right now but that LSD is a good investment for any FWD.

 

[Mugsy]

well i can tell you for a fact that i personally see a big difference in awd to fwd from a role. a buddy of mine has a awd 1g and i have a fwd 1g, he knows i will beat him if we go from around 30+. and he will take me from anything below that, now seeing that we are both stock i dont have traction issues in 2nd, now if i was modded maybe a different story but from personall experience, stock for stock on a 1g the fwd always pulls ahead, and i have raced some other 1g awd's from rols, same thing. i could be wrong but this is my thoughts, it makes sense to me also because a fwd puts all its power to 2 wheels rather then 4 so the 2 wheels will spin faster.

 

[TurboSpoolinIns]

Ok, his post did say that if they weighed the same and had the same hp (let's just say fwhp). They would be very close no matter what. The awd and fwd drivetrain loss is like a 5-10% difference (if even) but that is still minimal as it was proven by Pruven Perf. It's not hard to get a 1g awd to the stock weight of a 1g fwd (27xx lbs.) So..... personally people thinking fwd is superior and godly on the highway is just a myth. Either way, us AWD'ers just have to make a little bit more hp anyways if we wanna keep up or kick the fwd'ers a$ses from a roll. Who in their right mind would mod a fwd to high(500+) hp #'s anyways (except Smithey and a few others) ... there's so few of them, that it's pointless to compare to the awd's.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Yet another FWD vs AWD mudfest.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Originally posted by TurboSpoolinIns
Either way, us AWD'ers just have to make a little bit more hp anyways if we wanna keep up or kick the fwd'ers a$ses from a roll.

And AWD's break drive train parts in the process... this could go on and on and on and on and on...

 

[4geze63]

I say GS-T, I belive it would slowly pull away, aswell as I own one so its not like im siding with the AWD guys..