Good Idea to port/polish a head your self?

[ItsStockOfficer]

I have about ten extra heads to practice on... I figure by the time I finish those, I'll trust myself to do my own Plus, I know someone with a flow bench I've always wondered how long it would take to port a head with a tough piece of sandpaper and a shop-vac. It's aluminum
~Mark

You could never get the sand paper in some of the nessecary area's. You should be able to be happy with your porting after the first head Id think, depending how aggresive you go. You will alreaddy notice a HUGE improvement from your 1st runner to the 4th.

 

[BigDaddy186]

DSM'ers are the most unoriginal and closeminded car enthusiasts in the world. It is quite possible he could successfully clean up the head in a positive way if he does his research. People have been doing this for longer then anyone on this site has been alive, the knowledge is out there.

But this is obviously NOT the place to look for it. It's like watching scared children huddled in the dark, trying to bring more people in to keep them feeling safe.

Ok I agree that SOME dsm'ers can be very one minded and extremely unhelpful when it comes to doing your own sh*t. But when you say that all dsm'ers are unoriginal and closeminded.......now that just gets me Yea I have ran into those people here and there but most dsm'ers I've met that know thier stuff are really cool and can be helpful. Their out there you just gotta know who to listen to and who not to.
Oh yea about the head thing im gonna hit mine up with a grinder next week. (just kidding)

 

[Mackzero]

I ported my head myself, because the last one I had done, the machinest seriously messed it up. Now granted, I am very very very picky about stuff being symetrical and perfect so it took me 7 hours to do the whole head. It was of course my first time porting so I was very happy with the results, and think it went very well. (IF I forget the fact that I had metal slivers and dust all over EVERYTHING... )

I just got the car running and I have very good low end response and power. Much more than my buddies cars. Jwoody rode in it for the madien voyage and he seemed impressed. I am just getting it tuned now at 15 psi. I hope to have dyno results soon. They will probably say more about the flow of the head than I figure with my limited knowledge of these cars. On the other hand, the head will not show as many gains with 15 psi as it would with 24 psi. I figure this because it has the 1mm oversized valves, etc. And the stock heads flow so well, I would think the actual increase in flow of the head will be better with the more lbs/min. I push.

 

[AntixTSi]

When you port the head on a 1g gasket matching is the basic way to go, you can do this yourself, Mr. Gasket sells a kit for about $30, it comes with everything you need. If all you want to do is gasket match then go for it, its very simple to do and you will make gains without using a flow bench! The biggest thing is having a ex. manifold that matches your newly enlarged ports, if not thats where you will loose power. When you get into trying to customize port shapes then you need to use the bench... and that can get tedious to say the least. I just finished the head for my newest project tsi; I'll try to post pics soon. All 4 of my TSi's are ported and polished and I did all of them myself, I used the bench on 2 of them, the first two I did not and they gave me gains same as the other 2. Granted the bench is the "right" way to do it, if you can use an air grinder, a dial indicator, a micrometer, and a sharpie you can do it.

-Mark

 

[tmizer]

Another engineer I used to work with built a flow bench with a shop vac. Then he ported his 2.3 Ford head out of his turbo T-bird. He said when he started, 3 of the cylinders were pretty close to each other, the other was way off. The only things that detract from the shop vac setup are the fact that you may not be able to reach the typical 28" pressure drop that many *professionals* make their measurements at. Consequently, the resolution will not be as defined, but at that point, one is splitting a certain type of hair

So yes, with a shop vac, a motorcycle carb synchronizer, (stuff many DSM'ers already have due to *other* hobbies) and a few other odds and ends, you can do this at home inexpensively. Ignorance, blind acceptance, and the inability to learn will keep you down far better than "the man." "Knowledge is power" to beat yet another cliche <sigh> .

 

[swing lo]

For everybody that said they succesfully ported thier heads themselves, I would like to see some dyno numbers if i may. I'm not doubting anyone, but if some of you have personally polished your heads, how can we tell what feels to you like you did a good job without any numbers?

 

[half-cocked]

Yea . Another stupid stereotype that we don't need against us. Please get your FACTS straight.

Its not a stereotype, and this statement is very ignorant. Almost every DSM board I have been on shoots down anyone who asks about doing something technical, and follows up basically with a statement like this. "You shouldnt do this because you are a noob and asking questions and I can because I am better and you suck." My hobby is working on my car, not paying other people to do it. So he wants to learn how to port a head, give him some advice and warn him he might screw it up. Do you think machinists are born with knowing how to use a die grinder? The machinist I use was trained by the machinist that he bought the shop from. No school, or anything along those lines. Trial by fire, and I am willing to drop money he could build an engine better than MOST people on any DSM board.

 

[half-cocked]

Another engineer I used to work with built a flow bench with a shop vac. Then he ported his 2.3 Ford head out of his turbo T-bird. He said when he started, 3 of the cylinders were pretty close to each other, the other was way off. The only things that detract from the shop vac setup are the fact that you may not be able to reach the typical 28" pressure drop that many *professionals* make their measurements at. Consequently, the resolution will not be as defined, but at that point, one is splitting a certain type of hair

So yes, with a shop vac, a motorcycle carb synchronizer, (stuff many DSM'ers already have due to *other* hobbies) and a few other odds and ends, you can do this at home inexpensively. Ignorance, blind acceptance, and the inability to learn will keep you down far better than "the man." "Knowledge is power" to beat yet another cliche <sigh> .

I am curious on how he exactly set it up, essentially this is all you need for a do-it-yourselfer. No you wont get exact numbers and its not nearly as good as a flow bench. But if you can get a reliable baseline and then show improvement after the work, thats a good home test.

 

[loreak]

I have to agree as well, 90% of all threads are dominated by people saying "if you ask these questions you shouldnt do it" or "take it to a professional"

Very close minded overall i would say, but to this question, i think if your just going to polish it up and gasket match the head then go for it. If your going to actually port it all out without a flowbench, you may lose power, or you may gain power, but its a shot in the dark and most likely not for the better. Trial by error, up to you if you want to attempt it. Im planning on attempting to port some heads, i have 3 sitting at home with bent valves so im gonna strip them down and try...as soon as i get off the couch that is =)

 

[burldude]

Iam getting ready to port my extra head. Iam looking for a junker to cut up into pieces so that I can check all the water jacket and oil jacket thicknesses. Any one pm me and we can discuss cost. I finally looked back at this post and I am glad to see that 92tsifwd got it going.

 

[AntixTSi]

I too am interested to see how the shop vac worked too, . Anyway, to everyone that said to go and do it yourself, Kick a**! I have worked on cars all of my life, i also went to school for auto mechanics,and high performance and race engine building... neither school I went too showed me how to really port and polish. I learned from a friend that owns a machine shop explaining how to do it and simply asking questions when I got into a hard spot. Going out and doing is the only real method of learning so to anyone that says to "take it to a professional" there wont be any left if someone doesnt go and learn how... As far as cutting up a junk head, if your gasket-matching dont worry too much about hitting coolant or oil passages, you can and will have to remove alot of material and you shouldnt come anywhere near either one... well, not close enough that it will give out. so to anyone out there thats trying things themselves and doing the work themselves, rock on, knowledge is what out get paid for out in industry!

-Mark

 

[Mackzero]

I have my car fairly close to tuned @ 20psi, and I will take the car to the dyno as soon as I feel like driving 4.5 hours to Portland to get it done. From a driver's stand point I feel as if I did a good job on the head, because it is very responsive and the engine revs very nice and pulls good under boost. I spool my GT3255 to 20psi before 3700 rpms and the car is quite fast for a mildly tuned street car. Like I said, I hope to get it to the dyno soon, I am curious to how much power it is making, and at what rpm?

I think my main problem is that I am running the stock 90 cams, and I really should step up to the HKS 264/272 or 272/272 combo. I am running the stock block with bal. shafts removed, and the piston tops polished smooth. Also, ARP new mitsu metal gasket, etc. of course. I just want the car to stay streetable and be able to get good gas mileage still.

 

[Defiant]

Has anyone seen any porting maps for the DSM heads? Where to take off how much? I haven't, and I'm just curious what the payoffs are, if any.

 

[92tsifwd]

I have my car fairly close to tuned @ 20psi, and I will take the car to the dyno as soon as I feel like driving 4.5 hours to Portland to get it done. From a driver's stand point I feel as if I did a good job on the head, because it is very responsive and the engine revs very nice and pulls good under boost. I spool my GT3255 to 20psi before 3700 rpms and the car is quite fast for a mildly tuned street car. Like I said, I hope to get it to the dyno soon, I am curious to how much power it is making, and at what rpm?

I think my main problem is that I am running the stock 90 cams, and I really should step up to the HKS 264/272 or 272/272 combo. I am running the stock block with bal. shafts removed, and the piston tops polished smooth. Also, ARP new mitsu metal gasket, etc. of course. I just want the car to stay streetable and be able to get good gas mileage still.

Ya, I am very interested to see your dyno numbers when you get them. The closest dyno to me is about 2.5 hours away. My car is real strong now. I need a new knock sencer but, other than that every thing is good. It creeps to 18-20psi also depending on the weather. The 2g mass made the creep alot worse. If I can get a new knock sencer before the 17th I can get some time slips on that date to post.

 

[pinknuggit]

Trial by fire, and I am willing to drop money he could build an engine better than MOST people on any DSM board.

talk about ignorant statements.. You have No idea what every member on every dsm board is capable of. Where is building skill if you have shitty machine work? Building an engine and precise machine work go hand in hand.

 

[tmizer]

AntixTsi:
I don't know your background, and well, I don't really want to know, nothing personal, I just don't want to start teaching fluid dynamics on a DSM forum - students BADDDDD, beer GOOOOOODD. But *maybe* there are others both now and in the future, who just need that little extra information in the puzzle to do this. Now, I'm not going to spell it out for you as the information is out there, but I'll paint the general idea:

1. Flow air *somehow*
2. Measure air flow *somehow*

Then some specifics:

1. Plumb air into the intake port or out of the exhaust port in a manner that makes sense: ie. - no leaks, no significant internal airflow trips at the cylinder head interface, and more importantly: subsonic flow, in fact, measure at a flow rate that closely matches the flow of the port in actual operation. Usually, at work, we pull air thru, instead of pushing. That will be difficult to check for leaks as the static pressure in your piping will be less than atmospheric, so check by plugging one end and pressurizing the system *gently*, and "snooping" your piping joints with a soapy water mix.

2. Read up on MANOMETERS. If there's any one concept you need to understand about flow measurements, it would be this. Once you figure this out, you'll realize exactly what you need to do PERIOD. Don't get caught up in the equations and figuring out *exactly* how you're going to get a lbs/min, ft^3/min type of number to the 5th decimal point. If anything, make sure your flow velocity is subsonic to begin with. The point is to measure pressure drop on each port, at each valve lift point, at the SAME pressure drop. Again, read up on MANOMETERS.

3. Details. Internal aerodynamics or "pipe flow" as a fluid dynamics book will cover it, is not magic. If it were more *science*-like there wouldn't be tables strewn about for engineers to help solve flow problems, we'd have to use equations from the get go. Most problems with good low-speed aerodynamics actually make sense, and if you're pragmatic, you probably will do just as well as my co-worker who is also an engineer like myself, maybe even better if you're extremely anal-retentive about each detail. But is it worth it? As your wife that at 11pm on a Saturday night while you're still in the basement searching for leaks in your piping (she'll say you've got leaks somewhere else). So stay realistic about what is actually necessary - this is not a rocket engine by any stretch.

4. Make sure you can at least do the calculations for average flow velocity. Make a stab at what you think could actually go into the port with your turbocharger's compressor wheel. Look at the compressor map, divide by 4, measure your port area entrance, estimate a temperature. Can you now calculate what the flow velocity is thru there? Now instead of the compressor map, the problem changes to the shop vac. What does that flow? Did you read up on manometers? You should be able to figure this out by now.

...heh.. and we haven't EVEN covered "corrected" values <SIGH>, but if you get to that point, you're just a half-step away from completely understanding everything.

Good luck, and if you or anyone else should pursue this, here's to your success.

 

[AntixTSi]

Thanks for the overview, I would like to try this myself... but I will most likely stick with the flow bench at my local shop. Now, my question is without a bench, would you try to port yours yourself or not? because thats still sort of what this forum is about.

-Mark

 

[tmizer]

Mark-
Would I port myself? Personally, as an engineer, in a motorsports-oriented town like Indy, I'd find someone who's got a good reputation, and who's currently racing or getting vehicles to the track... eh, *successful* vehicles that is :laugh: . Which is what I, in fact, did. But then, I'm 40, and my woman is getting a little antsy that I'm spending so much time on a home computer when I use several, even clusters of them, at work 8-to-5 five days a week.
Now if I were younger, had the extra time, and the obvious curiosity, then yes, for sure, I'd be doing it myself. Keep in mind, 1G 4G63 heads flow alot of air stock. Much more than say, 302 Windsor heads. They really don't need much help given the typically small turbochargers we stick on them.
-Tom

 

[pinknuggit]

haha... windsor heads are the king of crappy airflow..

one thing I forgot to say is that there's nothing wrong with learning to do it yourself, but at least have a machinist or someone knowledgeable teach you and show you how to do it. They can show you what to do and what the affects of the port shape have on airflow are.

 

[half-cocked]

talk about ignorant statements.. You have No idea what every member on every dsm board is capable of. Where is building skill if you have shitty machine work? Building an engine and precise machine work go hand in hand.

Your right, I dont know what every member is capable of. Thats why I said MOST members on this board smart guy. I have seen his work first hand in a couple different applications and I was really impressed, as were other people that know a thing or two. I was kind of hinting on that I would bet he could build a more solid engine than MOST on here, and how did shitty machine work make it on here guy?

 

[Nt-Eclipse-Dail]

DSM'ers are the most unoriginal and closeminded car enthusiasts in the world. It is quite possible he could successfully clean up the head in a positive way if he does his research. People have been doing this for longer then anyone on this site has been alive, the knowledge is out there.

But this is obviously NOT the place to look for it. It's like watching scared children huddled in the dark, trying to bring more people in to keep them feeling safe.

I was in front of the Rite-Aid showing one of my Mitsubishi friends my Camaro when another Camaro drove by... He saw us and punched it from @ a 5 or 10 mph roll and darn near slid off the road because he was spinning so hard...

My Mitsubishi friend laughed and said, "He must have been using his emergency brake for that one".

I said, "That car is a Rear-Wheel Drive car, The Emergency brake won't help him do a burn out like on a Front-Wheel Drive car such as the Mitsubishi... That guy was spinning from pure POWER..."

Need I say more!