Going From Big 16G to PTE 60 Trim

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by Groomz
Yes, the 60-1 is bigger, therefore it makes more power. Not much argument there. Unless you want to argue that a huge slow spooling turbo is better for the street.

There is alot of arguement there. people here seem to think that the 60-1 compressor is only good for race gas and 26 psi or more, which is completely untrue, idiotic, goes against the facts, the truth, and the compressor maps....

And its not slow or huge spooling...full boost is about 4k...laggy, but certainly streetable, and how do you know what I (yes, I) need for a street car....

 

[Mike 99GSX]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
. Look at the compressor maps, then check the numbers...remember the br57 is a 60-1 compressor, so the red....look at what people have done at 18-22 psi and pump gas on them.

I'm sorry but the pople that I know who are running these 3 turbos are not running them competitively on 18-22 PSI and pump gas. These are hardcore dragstrip turbos. I agree that these turbos could be driven on a street car and the lag may be acceptable to some. To each his own is right. I personally will be running a turbo around this size for next season and still plan on driving my car on the street. However, I'm accepting the fact that my car will be slower from stop light to stop light. The lag is well worth sacrificing for I what I want the car to do at the strip. I just don't want to be told that a 60-1 will still make more power than a 50 trim at 18PSI on the same car. Show me a real dyno graph instead of a compressor map and I'll change my mind.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

ive used a agp 50 trim turbo and a ams t/3t/4 60 trim turbo and i could tell u first hand at 21 pounds on 93 octane that the 50 trim pulls so much harder and feels better then the 60 trim. with the 60 trim i wasnt feeling a real pull till about 3rd gear but with the 50 i felt the same pull if not harder in 2nd gear. as for street i would recomend the 50 trim over anything. i rev limit is raised to 8200 and the 50 trim never stoped pulling at all. this with a evo III tranny.

 

[TRBOTSI]

I like when people talk about turbos they have absolutely no experience with..This place has more useless posts than it does beneficial

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

i hope your not talking about me but i know what your saying , its funny people have to actaully try the turbo before they could talk about it. and not go by what other people say

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Me niether, My street car has had every damn turbo imaginable on it.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
My God, theres such bullshit in this thread....do you guys distill it or does it occur this pure in nature? 60 trims make 50 less hp huh? Well, you know, tuning might have a thing or 2 to do ith that sort of thing....

Your talking about bullshit floating around? Well heres some for you. What your saying is bullshit. Your ASSUMING the cars were tuned by different people?

I built the car with the 60trim and the same guy tuned my car on the same 650cc injectors with SAFC as what I am running with a 50Trim. His setup was near identical to mine. The same guy tuned the my car and his initially and I came away from the same dyno with more power with the same style of setting on the SAFC as he has. They were a bit different but thats to be expected.

This is experience with my own personal car, however I have seen it with lots of people who buy 60 vs 50 trim turbos. You seem to be a real compressor map bi*** have a look at the two and you tell me? The 60trim map is crap compared to the 50 trim. The 60-1 isn't even in the same league so I will not compare them to a 50 or 60 trim.

Thanks for calling first hand experience bullshit, however I build more cars in a week then you'll have turbos in a lifetime, but thanks for coming out. Your what we call an internet stats whore dude.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

good job dsmjim for putting people in there place, and like i said ive used a 60 and a 50 and the 50 is just that much better on the street. but if u cant choose i would say call up agp ask them and look into the 57 trim sense its bigger then the 50 but smaller then the 60.

kevin at agp said the 60 trim is a poor wheel and they dont like to sell them. he said if u want a 60 choose between a 57 or 60-1 and to skip the 60.

 

[Dieselboy]

It's funny no one is even talking about the FP3052 (even you jdmawd ) I think it is still a very new turbo. I have not seen or talked to one person who has a running car right now with the FP3052 (lots of people who have them, but I cant find one person who is running). Even though there are no wide spread numbers being put down by them right now, I believe it will all sum down to 50 trim vs. FP3052 as far as best street turbo.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

good bost dieseboy, i was thinking of that turbo but ive never used it first hand so what i would say would have been what i though. but i have heard great things about it.

 

[jdmawd]

Originally posted by Dieselboy
It's funny no one is even talking about the FP3052 (even you jdmawd ) I

We have enough egotistical arm chair racing going on around here. It takes me a little longer to do stuff but I rather do it right the first time. Rather then come back later, it well be ready soon 50 trim/green accomplishment's are some huge shoes to fill. Those turbos are just insane.

DSMJim:

well said bro.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

agp 50 trim, green, pte 50 trim all good. great street turbo.

60,street strip, better on race gas

take a hate put a paper in the hate and pick one if u cant decide, just make sure you have everthing to support them. it comes down to price and what u want to pay.

if it was up to me i would go with someone such as agp,dsmmotors,rnr. for one main reason. you could buy a 50 trim now and if you dont like it for some reason switch too a bigger turbine, compression wheel when ever you want. and if you do go with the 60 and think its not good enough when you get taken out by a 50 trim on the street you could go back down.

have fun and be safe not, go nuts with these turbos there so much diffrent then the b16 g its what i did and i was shocked in the power they make.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by DSMJim
Your talking about bullshit floating around? Well heres some for you. What your saying is bullshit. Your ASSUMING the cars were tuned by different people?

I built the car with the 60trim and the same guy tuned my car on the same 650cc injectors with SAFC as what I am running with a 50Trim. His setup was near identical to mine. The same guy tuned the my car and his initially and I came away from the same dyno with more power with the same style of setting on the SAFC as he has. They were a bit different but thats to be expected.

This is experience with my own personal car, however I have seen it with lots of people who buy 60 vs 50 trim turbos. You seem to be a real compressor map bi*** have a look at the two and you tell me? The 60trim map is crap compared to the 50 trim. The 60-1 isn't even in the same league so I will not compare them to a 50 or 60 trim.

Thanks for calling first hand experience bullshit, however I build more cars in a week then you'll have turbos in a lifetime, but thanks for coming out. Your what we call an internet stats whore dude.

One of us here currently owns his 5th dsm, on his 7th or 8th turbo, and has used every turbo in this thread....is that you? I can't remember? Someone here was faster then you are when he was in high school and had his first 11 sdecond DSM ages ago.....who was that again? Someone here works at shop and gets paid for tuning....I forget who that was too....

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

well who is it

 

[Rick@AP]

As someone said long ago, its the sum of the parts, not the individual parts that make the combination.

A 60 trim can be a beast on the street with the right tuning and parts. I've seen this.

A 50 trim however is probably a little more suited towards 90% of the DSM crowd that think they want a fast car. What I mean is that most people put on a turbo and then compare how hard it slams them into the seat at a certain rpm. They say there 14b seems faster than there friends 20g, you know who they are.

I've overlayed the maps between the 50 trim and the 60 trim and the 50 trim has a much bigger area for effienceny however a compressor map doesn't tell the real story (i actually think some of the maps that are posted are wrong, but thats another discussion).

If its my car, I would skip anything in between the 50 and the 60 as the map for the 50 covers the 54 and 57 in terms of efficent opperating area.

 

[13secGST]

Its me, its me

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

nice

 

[DSMotorsport]

I used a turbonetics to4E 50 trim (stage 3, .63ar) for most of 2002 season. ran best of 11.0 @ 125 on it @ 28psi.

we tried swapping over to a 60-1 compressor housing and wheel. same turbine, same turbine housing.

results: 11.2 @ 127. We gained about 2mph on average (and lost 1mph at the 8th mile). The lag was significantly worse especially on the 1-2 shift. The ET was on average 2 tenths worse because the lag on shifts more than offset the small power gain we say (maybe 35hp?)

this was back to back test (one week interval). no other parts changed, same tuning, same AF ratio, same boost level.


I always recomend a 50 trim to anyone with a street car that asks about turbos. Especially if they are upgrading from stock-16g type turbo. Honestly it's too big of a jump, 90% of my customers think they are building a race monster but are dissapointed with the lag that even a 50 trim has. no reason to sell or recomend anything even bigger.

 

[jdmawd]

DSMotorsport


check your PM's man

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

dsmmotorsport says it best, right there is a fine example of what we all are trying to talk about. its proven by what he says and im sure he isnt lieing sense he is a shop.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
One of us here currently owns his 5th dsm, on his 7th or 8th turbo, and has used every turbo in this thread....is that you? I can't remember? Someone here was faster then you are when he was in high school and had his first 11 sdecond DSM ages ago.....who was that again? Someone here works at shop and gets paid for tuning....I forget who that was too....

How many DSM's you own has nothing to do with how much knowledge you have. Your on your 7 or 8th turbo? Dude I changed 8 turbos on my old VW never mind my 1G or my 2G. I'm 28 so I highly doubt you were running 11s when I was in highschool bro. I work for a shop and build cars and get paid for tuning as well. Yes I had somebody else tune my car, however thats becuase I dont have a dyno at my shop. When I say somebody else tuned my car I mean I don't own the dyno and the owner of the dyno and myself were involved in the tuning of both cars. I don't have much experience in running an AWD Clatyon waterbrake dyno, not sure about you.

Oh King of DSM's you would please put your #### away you don't need to show everybody on dsmtuners how big it is and proclaim your glory to the world.

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

I'm very well versed on what the 50 trim can do on pump gas. At the moment, there isn't a 50 trim powered 2.0L DSM that's gone QUICKER in the 1/4 than mine. That's not to say that there aren't 50 trims out there that TRAP faster. There are. I've only gone 119.6 on my 50 trim, 93 octane. I'm still on stock ECU/AFC tuning. Dre from NJ has gone 124mph, EMS standalone. He's put down 446whp on pump. Vijay Swami from FL has gone 123mph on pump gas, water injection, Greddy E-manage.

As far as the Red, other 60-1 turbos, 60 trim, how fast (MPH) have they gone on pump gas? For the most part, we don't know. Guys that buy turbos this big, aren't concerned with pump gas results, as these turbos are geared more for the track. Sure they see street duty, but 99% of the people that buy these turbos, don't run pump gas at the track.

So, to compare apples to apples, go find us some 1/4 mile slips from people running 60-1 turbos. Then compare them to the fastest 3 I know of:

Myself: 11.50@119
Dre: 11.70@124
Vijay: 11.7x@123

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
There is alot of arguement there. people here seem to think that the 60-1 compressor is only good for race gas and 26 psi or more, which is completely untrue, idiotic, goes against the facts, the truth, and the compressor maps....

And its not slow or huge spooling...full boost is about 4k...laggy, but certainly streetable, and how do you know what I (yes, I) need for a street car....

There's a word I'm thinking of that starts with S and ends with arcasm.

 

[allwheelTSI]

just give it up man,get off of it. while the 60-1 may be faster in the 1320 the 50 trim is quicker, on the pump.

 

[DSMJim]

Originally posted by allwheelTSI
just give it up man,get off of it. while the 60-1 may be faster in the 1320 the 50 trim is quicker, on the pump.

Bingo