Getting the most out of an Automatic DSM [1G]

[Oblivion02]

Hey guys,

As you may have noticed in other threads of mine, my goals with my car aren't to upgrade turbo, or make it a RACE car or anything like that. I just want to squeeze the max out of it, leaving MOST of it stock. I've been reading up a bit about shift kits. Do you guys think this is worth it? I have an Eclipse 91 GS-T A/T.

Do you guys have any recommendations to get the best out of this A/T Transmission, and max out the performance while keeping most of it stock [no turbo upgrades]?

Thanks in advance! Hope you guys can help me out here.

 

[autotalon]

Be aware, there are other things to know when swapping to a 14b.

first of all, the stock 13g turbo has an offset on the turbine housing inlet, which is matched to the exhaust manifold. so you will need a 14b and an exhaust manifold (2g) to match. next, when you go to put the 14b on you will find that the water lines don't match, so you will need the water lines from a 14b as well. Now, to run the 14b properly you will want to get the 5spd ecu and 450 injectors. you don't want to run the 14b on the A/T ecu and injectors or it will run lean. Also I believe that the 5spd ecu has different fuel maps that are set up for the flow that a 14b puts out. if you do the injectors and ecu before the turbo, then it will run rich.

the stock fuel pump will work fine for this set up to about 15 lbs boost. this is assuming you will be doing the free mods, and the other stuff you mentioned. get a logger and tune.

 

[kenamond]

Be aware, there are other things to know when swapping to a 14b.

first of all, the stock 13g turbo has an offset on the turbine housing inlet, which is matched to the exhaust manifold. so you will need a 14b and an exhaust manifold (2g) to match. next, when you go to put the 14b on you will find that the water lines don't match, so you will need the water lines from a 14b as well. Now, to run the 14b properly you will want to get the 5spd ecu and 450 injectors. you don't want to run the 14b on the A/T ecu and injectors or it will run lean. Also I believe that the 5spd ecu has different fuel maps that are set up for the flow that a 14b puts out. if you do the injectors and ecu before the turbo, then it will run rich.

the stock fuel pump will work fine for this set up to about 15 lbs boost. this is assuming you will be doing the free mods, and the other stuff you mentioned. get a logger and tune.

Both the 1g and 2g manis have the step for the sealing ring. As far as I know, the 1g collector is the same for a 14b and 13g, but feel free to correct me if that's wrong.

Changing a turbo doesn't change the fuel or timing requirements in the ECU unless you boost too high. Airflow is measured by the ECU, and it doesn't care if that airflow was produced by a 14b or a 13g.

Certainly, you'll not be able to let the 14b stretch its legs without M/T ECU and 450s, but you can run a 14b at stock A/T boost levels on A/T ECU and 390s...unless the 14b WGA actuation pressure is higher than stock 1g A/T boost, and I don't know what either is.

I'm guessing here, but I'd bet that you could install the 14b with all of its stock coolant and oil lines. The motor is the same, right? And the 14b came stock with the M/T, right? But yes, you'll need to cool and lubricate the 14b.

 

[dsmconvict]

I believe the 13g is 5cm where the 14b is 6cm... unless you me and have a 7cm 14b.

 

[kenamond]

I believe the 13g is 5cm where the 14b is 6cm... unless you me and have a 7cm 14b.

But is the mani the same? If so, is there a 13g vs. 14b sealing ring that reduces the stock 6cm mani down to a 5cm housing? If Oblivion02 can plead his way into a 14b, he'll need to know these things.

 

[dsmconvict]

When I was looking for a new mani I saw that there was a different mani listed for the auto. I'd think they are different since the 13g is a TD04 and the 14b is a TD05...? I'd still just look for a 2g mani and then port the step rings on both the 14b and the manifold out to 7cm^2.

 

[autotalon]

when I say its off set, I mean off center. here are some pics for ya.

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This shows a 13g turbo. notice how the inlet for the turbine is slightly off center.

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This is a slightly ported 14b. the inlet is more centered.

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This is a stock automatic 1g exhaust manifold vs. an EVO 3. This really shows how far off center the collector is on an automatic manifold.

 

[dsmconvict]

Well theres the difference in the auto mani... Now I need to port my 2g to match my 7cm housing.

 

[kenamond]

Thanks autotalon! Are there also differences in the O2 housing?

 

[Oblivion02]

I think we're clear for the 14b! I told him I was going to get the stock parts for an M/T car, that makes it sound wayyy easier than a TURBO UPGRADE

Even though I read your posts, I do not quite understand what are the things to consider when I do this switch. The switch is a few months away since I'm finishing my major tune-up. I do plan on doing it however, so I'd like to know what are the steps I should take. By the way, since I'm going to change the turbo, shouldnt I go a bit bigger? I don't mean a 16g, but something smaller. I may be able to sneak a slightly bigger turbo in Recommendations? [Keep in mind that I do not want MAJOR horsepower. My goals remain pretty much the same, but since I am going to get a 14b as an upgrade, I figured I might as well go SLIGHTLY bigger, if there isnt much difference in price. Let me know what you think.]

 

[dsmconvict]

A 14b usually costs around 100 bucks. A used 16g goes for 250ish depending on the condition.

 

[dikdiamond]

If you think you will want more horsepower later on,look into the 16g turbo. You can run lower boost until(if)you decide to upgrade to a fmic,3 inch exhaust etc. this way you won't be buying a turbo only to upgrade a few months later. I am upgrading my 13b to a small 16g w/2g manifold. I already have the m/t ecu and 450 injectors,plus m/t fpr,and plan for 190 fuel pump + rewire,550 injectors,safc,etc. You might get the horsepower bug in a few months,just an option to consider

 

[Oblivion02]

I actually am considering a small 16g, but I'm hoping to get a good price deal... Maybe 200 shipped, maybe even a bit more. Since I noticed you did the A/T M/T ECU Swap, what other things did you have to change to get the 450s up and running?

 

[dikdiamond]

I used the fpr off a manual transmission eclipse. It flows a little less fuel than an automatic version. 47psi for the automatic,38 for the manual,correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't want to run rich since I don't have any type of fuel management yet,or a logger.