Geometry and timing seems a little odd

[talondsp1]

Craig, you are going too deep into it. It is pretty common. I have seen the mark be off on a stock motor, it usually ranges from one end of the mark to the other.

Plus, as mentioned above, if your timing plate has any play in it at the key, it could just be twisted one way or the other, and now it is locked in place by the crank bolt. Those timing plates always have a little play in them.

Bottom line is it is off a bit on all of them. Now you can correct it with the cam gears.

Dave! (I knew he'd show up eventually. )

So which side of the crank mark do you usually end up on? CW or CCW of it? Also, any idea why I'm seeing true TDC when the crank mark is a bit CW of where it should be? (with the head off BTW).



Yes. Please see post #22, third paragraph under the pic.

I always go with the on like your first picture. It is usually closest to TDC.

 

[Calan]

Craig, you are going too deep into it.

Have you ever known me not too?

I agree... it just seemed a little excessive, considering it's a relatively new crank plate, gear, etc.

I always go with the on like your first picture. It is usually closest to TDC.

Cool. That verifies what I thought, and it's what I did.

Thanks as always...add it to my bill.

 

[talondsp1]

Have you ever known me not too?

I agree... it just seemed a little excessive, considering it's a relatively new crank plate, gear, etc.



Cool. That verifies what I thought, and it's what I did.

Thanks as always...add it to my bill.

 

[mindset]

Calan,

I didn't read all of the posts in here because I'm dying to nap, but the cams, from numerous articles I've read, are not supposed to be lined up "straight" with the edge of the head. That is incorrect.

I learned this from blacknspoolin (spell check on his display name, he's a wiseman), that a 39 tooth count comes into play. The exhaust cam gear needs to line up straight with the head, while the intake cam gear needs to be SLIGHTLY counter clockwise.

My advice and experience is strictly derived from blacknspoolin's article and all credit goes to him. Take 2 17mm wrenches. Put them on the cam gears. Put the timing belt on the exhaust cam gear, use a paper clip to hold it on. Let the timing belt rest on the intake gear. Turn the intake cam gear counter clockwise once it is straight with the head until the teeth fall into place.

There should be 39 teeth counted on the timing belt from the top on the intake cam gear timing mark to ON the timing mark of the exhaust cam gear timing mark.

Then idler gear, offset oil pump gear, place it on that, around the crank gear, then the pulley tensioner.

Hopefully I didn't word this too bad, let me know of misguidance.

Edit: Also, I've helped numerous people time engines, and they always forget to make sure the dowel pins on the cam gear are at 12 o'clock.

Edit 2: I really need to proof read before I post... .

 

[donniekak]

Do your pistons have offset pins? That would cause the issue with the piston tdc not matching the mark in the plate.

It's best to not use any of the marks. A piston stop, degree wheel, solid lifter, dial indicator, and cam card, is the only way to be sure.

 

[Calan]

I really need to proof read before I post... .

And read the entire thread.

Do your pistons have offset pins? That would cause the issue with the piston tdc not matching the mark in the plate.

Never even thought about that. They are "standard" Wiseco stroker pistons, 8.8:1 and .040" over.

It's best to not use any of the marks. A piston stop, degree wheel, solid lifter, dial indicator, and cam card, is the only way to be sure.

Yeah. I wasn't really worried about getting the motor timed and dialed in; mostly just curious about why the crank mark is that far off.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

I just checked and I was wrong mine is like the first pic....which means I still dont know what the problem is

 

[mindset]

And read the entire thread.



Never even thought about that. They are "standard" Wiseco stroker pistons, 8.8:1 and .040" over.



Yeah. I wasn't really worried about getting the motor timed and dialed in; mostly just curious about why the crank mark is that far off.

Yes, you're right. On other engines, I've noticed crank timing marks off due to improper timing belt placement on the cam gears. Just thought I'd share my bit of info.

 

[Calan]

I just checked and I was wrong mine is like the first pic....which means I still dont know what the problem is

Probably need to degree your cams.

Yes, you're right. On other engines, I've noticed crank timing marks off due to improper timing belt placement on the cam gears. Just thought I'd share my bit of info.

No worries. The more info the better.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Probably need to degree your cams

I have a 98 7bolt and cant adj the cam angle sensor. Are you saying I need to reinstall the adj cam gears?

 

[Calan]

Are you saying I need to reinstall the adj cam gears?

Yeah... those will come in handy if you want to degree your cams.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Yeah... those will come in handy if you want to degree your cams.

We just took them off last night....
I'm missing 1,000 rpms on spool up so its got to be more than that.

 

[gt35rx]

I understand the situation your experiancing Calan. I have the same issue on my stroker build. My build is a little different then the regular 100mm stroker crank. I have a 97mm K1 crank and my teeth are off about a 1 1/2 teeth off on the crank. I'm currently in the process of doing the timing belt and This is what I have to work with. The cranks current position is TDC in the pics.

 

[white92talontsi]

Probably a stupid reply but you guy's are installing the trigger plate(aka oil slinger) on the right way?
If you put it on backwards it will throw the crank off when you get it lined up.

 

[gt35rx]

I believe I have it on correctly. The side I have it on has the lip on the outside pointing towards me. If I flip it, the lip would point towards the inside of the oil pump and the V in the belt separator would be at 2:00 instead of 11:00.

 

[white92talontsi]

I believe I have it on correctly. The side I have it on has the lip on the outside pointing towards me. If I flip it, the lip would point towards the inside of the oil pump and the V in the belt separator would be at 2:00 instead of 11:00.

If I am not mistaken the outer lip(fold) should be angled towards the seal, If the lip is angled towards the belt eventually it will eat through the belt.

 

[gt35rx]

The markings on the belt separator agree with what you say and so do I but if I put it on that way the V mark will in the 2:00 position during TDC. New Pic is with the lip pointing towards the seal of the oil pump and at TDC. Sorry for thread jacking, I just want to make sure I have it timed correctly.