420A Gas,air,fires,no start

[Mrdjflores]

Engine starting puzzle
First let me say that i'm new to Eclipses and the 420A engine. I'm not new to cars and fuel injection. My project car is a 95 Eclipse RS, A/T (going to be my daughter's first car) Car started and ran okay when i got it, had bad rings and low compression. so continued on to do a complete engine rebuild. Now the engine is back in it's happy home, but have come across a starting problem. At first, the engine ran good, then mysteriously quit running (long story short, out of fuel...DOH...) Put gas in it and it fired it up hence the following: 1)Started, ran rough, found #4 injector leaking - replaced all injector O-rings 2)Started, ran rough, found Fuel line inlet leaking - replaced O-Ring 3)started, ran rough, started checking plugs and connectors - engine died 4)Now won't start.... Here is what I know: *getting a little over 40psi at the fuel rail when cranking. *fuel getting into cylinders (fouling out the plugs) *getting spark at coil packs and spark plugs (seems a little weak for a spark) *Tested CAS (only get 9v at harness, others tests okay) *Tested TPS - good *Tested IAC - good, but going to retest off engine *Tested MAP - good *Tested Engine Coolant Sensor - good (have to wait for better weather to test CPS and Knock Sensor) *Double checked timing belt and alignment - good *Replaced spark plugs again, and gap accordingly I have a replacement ECU on the way. I'm also beginning to suspect fuel pump again, maybe it can build up the pressure but not deliver the volume?? I vaguely remember hearing the fuel pump prime when you just turn the key on, but now i don't, but does build pressure when cranking. Any thoughts?? Anything I obviously missed?? thanks, Dan

 

[Mrdjflores]

Coil can only plug in one way.
All new exhaust from header to muffler

 

[my1st2genGSX]

correction on what i put....it had two plugs of the same design....exchanged and it started right up.

 

[Mrdjflores]

There's no other plug like whats on the coil pack that would reach

 

[my1st2genGSX]

Rereading the post, I have to agree...even tho timing appears to be good could be off 180deg it would still not allow the vehicle to start and along with that firing order could be off.

 

[Mrdjflores]

Plug wires aren't long enough to be wired wrong....as far as timing being off, the crank sprocket would have to have sheared the key off, or the cam sprockets would have had to shear their dowel pins (the crank sprocket timing mark lines up perfectly with the mark on th oil pump housing and the cam sprocket markings align towards each other, just as they were when the engine was running)
I was wondering about the magnet on the end of the exhaust cam, if it coukd have come loose and the injectors were triggering at the qrong time, but then again, spraying starting fluid into the tb should still make the engine start.

 

[doubleclutch]

Bad MAF?

 

[Mrdjflores]

I thought that at first, but that means they would have had to make these engines come with a MAF, for it to go bad......

 

[ohlegend]

Just a thought, have you changed your spark plug wires? It could be possible that the weak spark you were talking about is caused by the wires...possibly arching out?

 

[Mrdjflores]

Changed coil pack and wires, great spark now

 

[ohlegend]

If you are getting good fuel and spark, the only thing that is left it seems is Airflow and Mechanical timing. Everybody is saying that it could be swapped 180 degrees. Open your valve cover and align the timing marks, then take a picture. We should be able to rule out the 180 theory that way.

 

[Mrdjflores]

mystery solved!!!
sheared the camshaft sprocket dowel pin on the exhaust cam....hopefully no other damage. just happened to be sitting where the intake and exhaust were opening at the same time

anybody know the spec's for the dowel pin size?

 

[my1st2genGSX]

i felt the same way I got the gsx running.

 

[dustyboner]

you might have a hard time extracting the broken piece out of the cam.
i don't know the size, but if someone can tell me how to remove the dowel pin without messing it up, i can hook you up with one off some spare cams i have.

 

[Mrdjflores]

i think MD158443 is the part number, it is a M6x14mm hardened dowel pin

 

[dustyboner]

should be m4x14
if you get it from dodge, the part number is 06100997

 

[Lou98GSX]

I have seen that one time on a 2.0l signal cam motor same as the 420 double head one but with one cam . that does make sense why the motor wouldn't start cause your cam signal was out of sync with the crank sensor .

 

[Mrdjflores]

may just change the cams with some used ones for now....i know of a couple 420a engines in some sebrings and avengers in a nearby yard. wonder if they have the same cam specs

 

[dustyboner]

95-99 avenger is basically the coupe version of the eclipse. The 420a in them is the same. Im pretty sure the sebring has a reversed head, intake in front, so the sebring cam wont work.

 

[Brando420a]

I know they used the 2.0 420a motor in a few different cars and some of the 420a motors have the intake ports in front and some have intake ports in the back. I found over hours of research on this particular motor that the specs between the two are almost identical.

 

[Brando420a]

I know they used the 2.0 420a motor in a few different cars and some of the 420a motors have the intake ports in front and some have intake ports in the

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Hey glad you found the issue! It would have sucked to just dump the car after so much time and money.

 

[dustyboner]

You cant use cams from the engines with the intake infront because the dowel pins wont be clocked right

 

[Mrdjflores]

The sebring ive been getting some parts off of has the exhaust on the front.

So far, i have less than 1400 invested in the car, and that includes the car itself

 

[Mrdjflores]

got the broken pin drilled out, doesn't appear to have been a hardened pin.
have some hardend M4 pins at work, will get some tomorrow

 

[doubleclutch]

Glad you got it fixed! That had to be a relief. I guess everyone telling you it was timing weren't completely wrong. You should be in good shape for a while since everything was replaced.