420A Gas,air,fires,no start

[Mrdjflores]

Engine starting puzzle
First let me say that i'm new to Eclipses and the 420A engine. I'm not new to cars and fuel injection. My project car is a 95 Eclipse RS, A/T (going to be my daughter's first car) Car started and ran okay when i got it, had bad rings and low compression. so continued on to do a complete engine rebuild. Now the engine is back in it's happy home, but have come across a starting problem. At first, the engine ran good, then mysteriously quit running (long story short, out of fuel...DOH...) Put gas in it and it fired it up hence the following: 1)Started, ran rough, found #4 injector leaking - replaced all injector O-rings 2)Started, ran rough, found Fuel line inlet leaking - replaced O-Ring 3)started, ran rough, started checking plugs and connectors - engine died 4)Now won't start.... Here is what I know: *getting a little over 40psi at the fuel rail when cranking. *fuel getting into cylinders (fouling out the plugs) *getting spark at coil packs and spark plugs (seems a little weak for a spark) *Tested CAS (only get 9v at harness, others tests okay) *Tested TPS - good *Tested IAC - good, but going to retest off engine *Tested MAP - good *Tested Engine Coolant Sensor - good (have to wait for better weather to test CPS and Knock Sensor) *Double checked timing belt and alignment - good *Replaced spark plugs again, and gap accordingly I have a replacement ECU on the way. I'm also beginning to suspect fuel pump again, maybe it can build up the pressure but not deliver the volume?? I vaguely remember hearing the fuel pump prime when you just turn the key on, but now i don't, but does build pressure when cranking. Any thoughts?? Anything I obviously missed?? thanks, Dan

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Have you checked fuse and fuel pump relay yet? Spray carburetor/throttle body cleaner in throttle body and then try to start it. If it starts and runs for a little bit then dies out you know you aren't getting enough fuel to rail. If that is the case then I would check the fuel pump relay and then lay under car by tank and have someone turn Key on and see if pump is coming on. If it is then check fuel filter to see if it's clogged/real dirty. If filter is good then possible bad pump or connections.

 

[Mrdjflores]

Getting fuel, 40+ psi...soaking the spark plugs.

 

[Dstarperformance01]

All 4 plugs are fouled?

 

[Mrdjflores]

Yes, and getting spark on all plugs after cleaning....spark seams weak to me. Also, only getting 9v going to the CAS, instead of 12v...possible problem. PO spliced in a CAS wiring plug, that has different colors, so might be spliced wrong....but then again, engine was running

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Have tried new plugs instead of cleaning them? What is the condition of the plugs that you are cleaning? Like you said it was running so not quite sure the cas voltage is the no start issue.

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Sounds like your firing order is incorrect or weak spark from a bad coil pack. I used to have the 420a engine and had to replace the coilpack twice.

 

[Mrdjflores]

Same firing order from when it was running smooth. Tried another coilpack and CAS....no joy

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Have you scanned for codes? Did another compression test?

 

[Mrdjflores]

Getting no codes. Git great compression on all 4 cylinders (which i would expect since its been completely rebuilt )

 

[oneslowwdsm]

Getting no codes. Git great compression on all 4 cylinders (which i would expect since its been completely rebuilt )

The only thing left that may cause a no start situation and weak spark would be the CPS. (Crankshaft Position Sensor) These are common culprits to random stalling out/no start problems and is a separate sensor from the camshaft position sensor.

 

[Mrdjflores]

That was my current thinking.....but changed that out last night.....no joy still

 

[Mrdjflores]

latest update...
Still not running.
changed out ECU...nothing...fuel pump doesn't always run for a few seconds when key is in the "ON" position.
checked fuel pump relay and ASD relay...both good.
pulled off the front of the engine and double checked timing belt, tension and alignment....all good
double checked compression on all cylinders...good
double checked coil pack...good
TPS...good
IAC...good
CAS..good
MAP...good
ECT...unknown
IAT...unknown
replaced CPS...condition unknown
replacement ECU has 30 day warranty, sending back..

thinking of ordering all new sensors and ECU just to eliminate those possibilities.
maybe even a new fuel pump...

I only have about $1000 ties up in this so far...so if none of this works....haul off to firing range and light it up with a Lahti L-39

 

[doubleclutch]

So the fuel pump doesn't run in the on position, only when cranking. What would really help is someone with link and a socketed ECU stopping by and letting you know what is up.

What are your plans for the car? do they include link? It is expensive, but I wish i wouldn't have waited to buy mine. Saves a lot of grief knowing what is going on.

please send a pic of your cams and their timing marks.

 

[Mrdjflores]

this car is intended for my daughter next year....dont want to hot rod it, just get it running....
Did rule out fuel pump, hot wired the pump but still did not start

 

[doubleclutch]

The fact that it ran rough after running the tank empty seems to me like it should be fuel related. Dirty injectors or clogged fuel pump screen? Just because the plugs are wet may not mean that it is actually atomizing the fuel correctly.

 

[Mrdjflores]

Bench tested fuel pump...good
Benched tested fuel relay, and asd relay...good

Thoughts on why pump doesnt prime with key in the "ON" position???

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Are you getting power at the pump when key on,engine off? Possible ignition switch

 

[Mrdjflores]

Key on, engine off, no power to pump.
Power to pump when cranking though.

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Have you tried pulling fuel pump relay and spraying carb\throttle body cleaner into t-body and see if engine starts? That would eliminate fuel being an issue And would let you know if spark is good enough to kick engine over.

 

[Mrdjflores]

As another update......have no spark from coil now....

 

[Dstarperformance01]

Keep us updated

 

[doubleclutch]

I dont know about 420a's but 4g63 engines do not send power to the pump unless running or cranking.

 

[Mclovin2g]

Make sure the wire harness that runs beside the egr tube doesn't have any melted wire in it because I have a 420a and I replaced cam and crank sensor and the fuel pump and it ended up being a wiring problem but I had the same problems your having

 

[dustyboner]

The CAS uses a 9V suppy circuit so your getting the correct voltage to it. CPS also has a 9v supply voltage.

the fuel pump will run for 2 seconds when the ignition switch is moved from OFF to ON.
it wont run again unless the engine is cranking or running.

Fuel pressure at curb idle = 47-50psi

I think Mclovin2g is right,, your harness is melted.

if not, a few other things,
-I have seen new cam sensors from autozone that dont work.

-I have seen people install the cam sensor upside down (plug on top). So it was 180 out of phase

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

-the plug for the coil pack(flat pin version) and plug for CAS are the same. Make sure they arent switched

CAS wires= (yellow), (black/green), (blue/red)

coil wires= (brown), (black/red), (black/blue)