g4 spyder 2.4 block?s

[Bud92gsx]

Got a text from my buddy picking up a n/t spyder has the 2.4.

That 2.4 was the 3g motor..Now heres the questions.

Is that 2.4 block what the evo guys use to go stroker? Can you swap on an evo head?

Obviously you would have to change the comp ratio down to 9.The evo pistons probably dont fit, so would you have to get stroker pistons or just lower comp pistons?

He got the car for 500 bux with a bad head..And it got me thinking.

Next question.Since the motors are flipped 180 from our 4g.The 3g has a slapstick trans.Would that bolt right up?

Thanks guys.This kinda stuff I needed to know.And what a better place to ask then you badass mofos.

Thanks

 

[Tyeler18]

The spyder 4g64 isn't the same as the 3g 4g64. Wes has a writeup on it.

You don't want the slap stick even if it would work. They're garbage.

 

[Bud92gsx]

They dont hold power im assuming. the trans that is?

Gimmie that writeup please will ya if u cant find it ill pm wes

 

[Miasma]

Got a text from my buddy picking up a n/t spyder has the 2.4.

That 2.4 was the 3g motor..Now heres the questions.

Is that 2.4 block what the evo guys use to go stroker? Can you swap on an evo head?

Obviously you would have to change the comp ratio down to 9.The evo pistons probably dont fit, so would you have to get stroker pistons or just lower comp pistons?

He got the car for 500 bux with a bad head..And it got me thinking.

Next question.Since the motors are flipped 180 from our 4g.The 3g has a slapstick trans.Would that bolt right up?

Thanks guys.This kinda stuff I needed to know.And what a better place to ask then you badass mofos.

Thanks

That 3g 4g64 is the 2nd generation 4g64 engine, same found in later year outlanders and YES it is what the evo guys use for a 2.4 stroker in 4-8 evo models.

It is the same block I'm using for my evo 8conversion build. It is 180* opposite of the dsm 4g63 engine. An evo head will bolt up to it fine, but to be used in any 4g63 dsm would be difficult. I don't know that you can bolt up your tranny to it since the engine rotation is opposite.

The stock internals in the 4g64 motor are pretty weak, but could hold 10 psi.

I'm using this for my build since my original 420a engine sits 180* opposite of the 4g63 engines, and engine mounts are relatively close.

Here is a parts list from evom for the 2.4 stroker build.
How to build a 4G64 for an EVO 8/9 - evolutionm.net

 

[spyderdrifter]

Here's the write up by WES...


http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/428378-newer-4g64-2g.html

 

[WES_393]

The Evo/3g 4g engines don't rotate backwards. Almost all engines rotate clockwise (when viewed from the front).

You can bolt a DSM head to an Evo/3g/Outlander block. Both DSM and Evo heads bolt onto the engine the same way, the ports are just backwards (viewed from the front, Evo exhaust is on the right and DSM exhaust is on the left). You can see that in the thread spyderdrifter linked.

To quickly answer your question Bud, the bell housing bolt pattern for DSM 4g63/4g64 blocks is different from Evo/Outlander/3g blocks. The DSM trans won't bolt up. Otherwise you absolutely could swap 4g63/4 blocks from other cars.

But even if the bolts matched, the transmissions are a different story. In an Evo/3g, the input shaft is rotating the same direction as the wheels. In a DSM, the shaft rotates opposite of the wheels since the trans is mounted 180° different. So even if you somehow put a 3g trans into a DSM body, the car would go backwards instead of forward.

 

[Bud92gsx]

To quickly answer your question Bud, the bell housing bolt pattern for DSM 4g63/4g64 blocks is different from Evo/Outlander/3g blocks. The DSM trans won't bolt up. Otherwise you absolutely could swap 4g63/4 blocks from other cars.

Thats why i thought of using the 3g slapshift and upgrading the auto..thats not hard to do.the car would still be fwd but no auto shift box needed.All i would need to control is line pressure and i got that so in theory i could have a stroker evo 8 in a spyder 2.4..Edit stroker evo 8 in a spyder,mofoing spyder.


Thats mother flippin cool if you ask me.

 

[Miasma]

Isn't the 3G trans rotation opposite to the 2g? Wouldn't that be a problem or am I thinking incorrectly?

 

[Bud92gsx]

Yes Yes it is..Our 4g motors were all mounted this way..On the evo 4 is where the motor got fliped 180..So like i said in theory,it might just be crazy enough to work..

 

[Miasma]

But even if the bolts matched, the transmissions are a different story. In an Evo/3g, the input shaft is rotating the same direction as the wheels. In a DSM, the shaft rotates opposite of the wheels since the trans is mounted 180° different. So even if you somehow put a 3g trans into a DSM body, the car would go backwards instead of forward.

As Wes said ^^^^^

This is what I think wouldn't work in the situation for you. From what I understand what you want to do is use the 3g 4g64 engine and trans mounted in your 2g with a evo 8 head. But to do this your transmission is going to spin opposite of your direction (forward trans=reverse tires)(reverse trans=forward tires), I don't know if I'm explaining that very well.

But for instance in my build I have the engine and trans mounted the same orientation as in the 3g and evo 4-8.

 

[Tyeler18]

Uh... just to clarify the 3g 2.4 rotates clock wise, and the 4g rotates counter clockwise... if you rotate the block (flip it around 180*) both cranks still rotate... clockwise. You won't have 5 reverse gears and 1 forward, you'll still have 5 forward and 1 reverse. The engine isn't what is changing the orientation that the trans rotates, because both engines rotate the exact same way. The only issue is that the bell housings won't bolt up.

Bud as far as the slap sticks go, even with a built IPT they're trash. The TCU is finicky, the trans are weak even in built form. None of the "big power" (if you consider 400hp big power) 3g's run auto's because they're junk.

 

[Miasma]

Uh... just to clarify the 3g 2.4 rotates clock wise, and the 4g rotates counter clockwise... if you rotate the block (flip it around 180*) both cranks still rotate... clockwise. You won't have 5 reverse gears and 1 forward, you'll still have 5 forward and 1 reverse. The engine isn't what is changing the orientation that the trans rotates, because both engines rotate the exact same way. The only issue is that the bell housings won't bolt up.

Bud as far as the slap sticks go, even with a built IPT they're trash. The TCU is finicky, the trans are weak even in built form. None of the "big power" (if you consider 400hp big power) 3g's run auto's because they're junk.

Ah makes sense ok.

 

[Bud92gsx]

Well I'm glad i asked before trying to hunt down one with a bad motor.



I mean 400 wouldnt be target if it would work.It would still be a fwd spyder..Wasnt wanting to full out race car or 400 hp car.Just wanted a gst type car out of a n/t is all..But here in my area it seems like the dsms for sale, especially the turbo models there wanting gold and diamond prices.

400 hp in an auto dsm with a stock trans has been done.Lets say the 2.4 block and evo 8 head net about a turbo model with a fuel pump rewire and a few more lbs of boost so well say 250 ish..That was the target all along.


And again i ask because the 420a and g4 blocks are mounted backwards to our 4g models.so take a g4 trans out of a 3g,try and mate it to the block..Obviously custom trans mounts would be the least of my worries..just wanted to see if it was crazy enough to work.


Thanks guys

 

[WES_393]

Uh... just to clarify the 3g 2.4 rotates clock wise, and the 4g rotates counter clockwise... if you rotate the block (flip it around 180*) both cranks still rotate... clockwise. You won't have 5 reverse gears and 1 forward, you'll still have 5 forward and 1 reverse. The engine isn't what is changing the orientation that the trans rotates, because both engines rotate the exact same way. The only issue is that the bell housings won't bolt up.

Uh, no. Both engines rotate the exact same way when viewed from the front (looking at the harmonic balancer). If you put an Evo trans in a DSM, you will go backwards. Take a DSM trans, rotate it 180*, and you'll go... backwards. The transmissions (or I should say outputs) don't rotate the same way due to their orientation. It has nothing to do with the engine, the transmission simply faces the opposite direction.

You can NOT put a 3g trans in a DSM and expect anything except 5 reverse gears. If you don't believe me, point your car in one direction and drive in 1st. Now rotate the entire car 180*, hit the gas, and tell me which direction you go. You've changed the trans orientation, yet it doesn't drive the car in the same direction as before. Hmm....

 

[Miasma]

The way I think about it, and have thought about for my own build when finding a transmission is that if you were to use an evo 4-9 tranny orientated the same as a dsm tranny your t-case is going to be facing the front of the car, not the rear. So without even thinking about the internal components of the transmission you can see it's pointed the wrong way. So even for a fwd transmission out of a 3g the front of the transmission is the same, and will be pointed back wards when used in a 2g dsm.

 

[Tyeler18]

Uh, no. Both engines rotate the exact same way when viewed from the front (looking at the harmonic balancer). If you put an Evo trans in a DSM, you will go backwards. Take a DSM trans, rotate it 180*, and you'll go... backwards. The transmissions (or I should say outputs) don't rotate the same way due to their orientation. It has nothing to do with the engine, the transmission simply faces the opposite direction.

You can NOT put a 3g trans in a DSM and expect anything except 5 reverse gears. If you don't believe me, point your car in one direction and drive in 1st. Now rotate the entire car 180*, hit the gas, and tell me which direction you go. You've changed the trans orientation, yet it doesn't drive the car in the same direction as before. Hmm....

I was under the assumption we were discussing putting an evo block and mating it to a dsm trans, not an evo trans to a dsm block. So yes, if you were to try and mate an evo trans to a dsm, in the same orientation as a DSM is from the factory you'll have 5 reverse. But putting an evo block into a dsm bay mated to a DSM trans you'll be fine. That's what I assumed we were discussing.