Frustrating Oil Pan leak?? Why??

[EclipticalGS]

Ok, i am going to be as Descriptive as possible so this thread may be a little long.

Yes, this is a brand new motor built by a "reliable" company and vendor on this forum.

I have NOT done any leak down tests or and Compression tests as there is only 62 miles on this motor.

Well, all my leaks started when i got the new motor in the car, I had a 7-bolt oil pump modded to fit the 6-bolt block, which was done somewhat correctly, but the motor was spewwing oil at start-up. This oil was dripping off the timing cover near the oil filter housing.

I took the cover off and found it was a bolt that ran into a main high pressure oil galley that was supposed to be welded closed but it wasnt. So i coated that in thread seal/grey rtv. Fixed.

Started car, no oil dripping or any leaks i could think of...I even had 80 oil pressure on a cold startup in 5 deg. weather and there was still no oil leaking at startup.

I was relieved and everything but still wanted to watch the oil levels.

Drove like a dream for 20 miles off boost, then as soon as i gave the motor it's first pull @ 9psi, jsut to 4000 rpms and let it engine brake down, My dipstick went plunk as soon as i hit boost, and oil was everywhere in my bay.

So, me just thinking my dipstick seal was weak, (it was missing the top cap part of the dipstick anyway) I replaced the dipstick and crimped the tube, it doesnt move anymore....

Now, 5 miles later driving around w/ 25miles on the motor, doing some on/off Load pulls to seat the rings, I parked at the gas station and started smelling burning oil???

I pulled out to get the car home, and sure enough just from being parked for like 15 seconds there was 7 drips on the ground, all very close to eachother within millimeters.

I drove it home, and then pulled it into my garage and I was so happy that I didnt see any oil on my lower timing cover so that wasnt the problem, but,

I had oil all over my downpipe, like it was spackling while i was driving
Oil all over my driver side suspension parts right where that lower arm goes into the body, underneath the firewall
And, oil was dripping off the oil pan itself

My turbo oil return is perfect.

So i then replaced my PCV valve because the one i bought from autozone was completely blown? I replaced it with a good one that actually stops airflow and also have a US plastics check valve on the way.

So, since i plugged the oil dipstick so well, could my faulty pcv valve let boost pressure through and only place for it to go was out my oil pan rtv gasket??

and even after i replaced the PCV valve, oil still leaks out of my oil pan while driving and under boost?

Just some notes**

1. It's a brand new motor
2. Both mains are perfect
3. I accidentally overfilled the oil pan by a 1/3 of a quart, dipstick showed it was over filled a lot, didnt even check it until 25 miles, I guess my friend dumped a ton in my oil filter first, before filling the pan., so his first dipstick reading did not include what we put into the oil filter, and what we pumped in the OFH to prime the motor.
4. So, now at 60 miles i rechecked the dipstick and it is a millimeter above the "full" line.

Any help would be appreciated, let me know what I can do to pinpoint this leak or if what I described can give you a visual. I have Some UV dye to dump in and I wanted to make sure it cant harm a new motor. Thanks!!!

 

[95burgundyesi]

I know overfilling your engine with oil can sometime cause the main seal to leak oil. Might burn in the cylinders too. But if oil is all over underneath you need to spray it down and get all the old oil off so you can accurately see what and where the oil is coming from. The RVT may work now but I would fix it the right way if possible. Wouldn,t want to be driving and have the dummy oil light come on all the sudden.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Yeah well, im sure it's not the main because ther would be oil dripping off of my front case at the lowest point and it would be all over the timing belt and inside of my clear timing cover, but there is none.

The oil pan was sealed with blue rtv by the engine builders, but like i said, could a bad pcv valve caused my oil pan gasket to blowout, and even after replacing my pcv it still leaks while driving??

Because if there was enough force to shoot my dipstick, after i sealed the dipstick, there would be enough pressure to blowout the rtv?

Only while driving, I assume while under boost.

 

[BigBeans]

PCVs are such common failure/leak points that i always send them to catch cans.

Regardless of where the leak is, it seems like you need better crankcase ventilation, so add that to the "to-do" list.

It would take a lot of pressure to blow out the RTV, but if your PCV isn't working properly, there is no way the valvecover vent could bleed off the excess air.

Clean everything thoroughly and run the engine for a few minutes. See where the oil first appears and go from there.

Have you pulled the timing cover to take a look around?

I would start there. There are only a few places it can be coming from. RTV base gaskets suck. You could always yank the pan and replace the RTV with a real gasket.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Yeah i understand that the pcv can pressurize the crank case...

Heres the thing though, I can clean off all the oil underneath the car and Start the car and let it run for 30 mins idling, and a little free revving, there is no leaks...

Leaks only come when I am Driving ONLY. Just to make that clear to everyone..

Which makes me think while under boost.
thanks tho

Makes me wish i could stick like a midgit under there and see wtf is happening.

Edit: A big thing i noticed is the oil splattered on my Downpipe? Its only on the downpipe right behind the oil pan, (underneath firewall)

 

[95burgundyesi]

I like the rtv for oil pans, thats how they come from the factory.

Since your FWD, jack the front up or get on lift would be even better, rev it up and hold it at like 3k and what not for a few minutes after everything is spotless of oil. Can you uncripm your stick, see if a new dipstick was all that was needed. If you are blowing a brand new dipstick then there's excess pressure. Pretty sure you can get a new pcv valve at any parts store.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Well, I had the car jacked up, I cleaned everything spotless, ran the car idling for like 10 mins while laying under it and drinking a beer. There was not a leak in sight. Had a freind rev it to about 3k when I was under it cracking a new beer, still nothing. Sorry i can only go by the time of how long it takes me to finish a beer but i dont have a wrist watch. Anyway, I know that the autozone PCV was crap, and I finally found one that could somewhat Check valve seal like they're supposed to, I swear i have my saliva on every Check valve at autozone/napa. Anyway, I have a usplastics Check valve on the way that will cure any boost ever getting into my crank case via pcv. But im still blowing oil even with my pcv that DOES seal properly. I have some UV dye im going to throw in just wanted to make sure that safe??

Also, would a compression test at this point be benificial to see if i have blowby?? or is 62 miles on a rebuild not enough to seat the rings? Im sure that its broken in just fine, I added variable load and engine breaking throughout its 62 mile life.

 

[BigBeans]

I like the rtv for oil pans, thats how they come from the factory.

Personally i'm not a fan of it at all, OEM or not.

OP, considering pressure is blasting the oil out, the places it can be coming from are limited.

Could your oil pan have been warped during the rebuild? dropped? something that could cause the gasket surface to be compromised while it was laying around the garage?

 

[EclipticalGS]

Motor was rebuilt by a vendor shop on this site?? I thought they might have taken care of the oil pan??

Essentially I had a long block built for me that leaks oil


Also, just to state,

Oil pressure at idle is 12 psi...This is with no Balance shafts, and i did NOT port the oil relief.

Oil pressure cruising at 2000 rpms in 5th at 60mph oil pressure is around 40 psi, and roughly 15psi~ for every 1000rpms up.

So oil pressure is always fine

 

[BigBeans]

I didn't realize the whole longblock was assembled by the shop.

Have you called them?

 

[EclipticalGS]

Nope. Just waiting for this thing to blow up so they can have it back. j/k. Every person ive had thats looked in my engine bay before I had my Valve cover Powdercoated laughed at me so hard. I mean, their attempt to paint the valve cover was...I mean id have to be armless with a paint brush in my mouth to do some shit like that. They also cant believe that its leaking.

But personally, I just rather fix it myself. I inspected the Main seal, it was good, I mean, everything points to the oil pan.

is it possible to clean the oil off, stuff some shop towels in between my oil pan/fire wall, take a quick rip down the street and come back and see the leaks?? My uncle told me it would show where the leaks at?

 

[95burgundyesi]

just drop the pan, it would be cake you don't even have a transfer case to crush your face

 

[EclipticalGS]

Lol, ok. But no Blue RTV..right?? Only grey?

 

[EagleTSIawd]

I had the same problem, oil would drip around the slave clutch cylinder. I replaced the slave thinking it was that, then the oil return line but still it would drip. Took the pan down and re-rtv'd it, still dripped. Finally i took the whole pan out and saw a little tiny dent on one of the edges and it matched where the drips were coming from. I bought a new pan but with a gasket, cleaned up all the rtv good and to this day it hasn't dripped one bit. In fact, I am shocked that my oil level never goes down anymore.

 

[95burgundyesi]

From the factory they use grey.

I use- http://www.permatex.com/products/Au...uto_Permatex_the_Right_Stuff_Gasket_Maker.htm

This stuff solved my seeping oil pan, and I also use it on my intake manifold, the pre cut gaskets always blew out, this stuff is thick and works good for me.

 

[EclipticalGS]

Alright, that sounds about right, ill just drop that and re rtv. I cant use a gasket from a 6-bolt pan either, I have a 6-bolt block with a 7-bolt front case, so Im using a 6-bolt oil pan that some of the holes had to be made in the pan to make it all touch down right. But I did have the pan off at one point and the motor was upside down, I cut all the rtv off the block and the pan, and I rested ontop of the block, and stuck some feeler gauges everywhere..There wasnt anything too major that rtv wouldnt seal.

 

[4g63thermal]

is it coming more towards rear of engine like in between the tranny and motor... might be the rear seal if it was installed wrong or ruined when pressed in... or could even be the lip of the seal is flipped out...

 

[EclipticalGS]

No, the rear main was put on by me, there are no drips coming from in between the tranny/starter plate area. The oil is on my firewall essentially, on my Downpipe right under the firewall, and on my drivers side suspension arm that goes into the firewall/frame or whatever you call it. Thanks tho!!

Oil is dripping off the pans lowest spot when I stop from a drive and is all over the spots i said up there^^. No drips from the timing side, or the tranny side. Just drips from the rear of motor.

There is also no signs of oil on my timing belt or clear timing cover, I assume that if oil is getting blown all over the firewall, if it did come from the timing side, it would be on my belt and inside the timing cover itself, but its dry..

 

[jemsoccer]

Just throwing out a suggestion... maybe the balance shaft plug bolt? This is my only other thought if the oil isn't coming from between the pan and block.

Not sure if you know where the bolt is, but its in figure 12c :
Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)

Just check that it is tight and there is no oil in that area.

 

[dadsgsx]

i used a felpro gasket on my oil pan and it was a one and done deal worked perfectly. i also had the same thing happen to me as far as leaking under boost. i know you said you checked your oil return line, but that is a common place for leaks. it could be cracked around the ends by the welds or not tight enough. i used a little red rtv on my gaskets to ensure proper fitment. just my .02 cents good luck.

 

[ceedawg]

Just throwing out a suggestion... maybe the balance shaft plug bolt? This is my only other thought if the oil isn't coming from between the pan and block.

Not sure if you know where the bolt is, but its in figure 12c :
Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)

Just check that it is tight and there is no oil in that area.

That is an excellent suggestion checking that out now!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You can add some oil dye to your oil then run the motor very shortly and look for the oil leak with a black light/ultraviolet light and it will show up very bright yellow/green if you need to narrow down where it is coming from. Just ask about it at your local parts store. A little bit goes a long way!

 

[motomattx]

It was a missing balance shaft check bolt on mine, drove it to the shootout that way and then figured it out when someone pointed out all of the oil on my firewall, figured it was my pan too but then I started to think about it and figured it out.

 

[pauleyman]

This is a five year old thraed people.