first upgrade - power or tune?

[stratt134]

I have a mostly stock 98 gsx. I got a boost gauge and upped the boost to about 14 psi, which it spikes to and holds, runs strong.

I want to spend about $500 - $600 on an upgrade. I don't know if I should get a new turbo - the Evo3 big 16g, keep the boost down, then start to get fuel mods etc in the future....

or if I should just get some good logging & tuning software first, like DSMlink, before I start getting power adders seeing as I'm sure I can tune the stock ecu even with no mods other than the Enjen intake & filter....

Let me know what you think....

 

[SolidBoostTSi]

i don't wanna lead you the wrong way so take what i say with a grain of salt....

In my opinion Tuning is critical and will get repetitive. Every member on this board will sooner or later make a remark about tuning and how critical it is. Generally The tuning equipment will yeild better and safer results rather than throwing on a great turbo (like the E316G) and limping it around on just the bare minimum just so you can drive the car
from point A to B. Eventually you will feel itchy and you will lay into the gas... I CAN VOUCH FOR THIS. Regardless of the situation you will need a way to control your fuel demand.

For example

If you get the Evo3 - you will need larger injectors
If you get the larger injectors - you will need a way to controll them
If you get the Fuel controller - you will eventually lead to tune
As you tune - you will need a wideband
etc...

If you start from Tuning equipment and work your way up the list...

get - Tuning equipment with - bolt ons = more efficiency gained
get - Injectors - Adequate fuel = safety buffer for your next mod...
get - EVO 3 16G - every thing is laid out already to safely rough tune
get - Wideband - Fine tune = enjoy your DSM coming alive

I'm not by any means saying this is the ultimate way to go by any elastic strech of your imagination but what asked for was an opinion.

Here's my honest opinion


- Solid

 

[andymoraitis]

Great post and dead nuts correct. Investing in tuning and supporting mods first is always the wisest choice.

I have nothing of importance to add so I think I'll bow out,

Andy

 

[stratt134]

Yes investing in tuning mods is the wisest choice... but thinking you can go faster with a simple bolt on turbo is fun to think about. I posted this so someone like you would keep me on the right track .

Anyways, what's up on this MAF-T 2? What if I get that + the GM MAF and have it control my A/F / fuel, get a new fuel pump + rewire, and AFRP?

 

[andymoraitis]

I'm not a big fan of piggyback fuel controllers like the AFC and MAFT as solitary tuning devices since the airflow subtraction required for larger injectors exponentially increases the amount of timing advance and creates tuning difficulties. If you like chasing your tail and compromising between boost and timing then have at it, but I would strongly recommend a custom tuned KeyDiver chip (my only fuel control) or something like DSM Link. If you have to tune, do it with something that allows for greater control and isn't negtaively impacting your ability to run max boost at reasonable timing on pump gas.

Looks like I had something to add after all.

Cheers,

A.

 

[Locutus78]

Tuning first x3....IMO go with DSMLink you will be opening a whole world of possibilities, even on your current hair dryer turbo. Also if you can't tune it yourself, there is always someone on any DSM board that can help, and DSMLink forums is an additional wealth of knowledge.

 

[DsmKid98GST]

After throwing all of the mods on my car in my vehicle profile I wish i had gone with the eprom + dsmlink in the beginning rather than spending 400 on safc2 logger/palm combo so i could upgrade the fuel pump.

sure the car runs great and all but i'm already on my way to gettin dsmlink right now and putting my piggyback system up for sale and it's only been about 6 months. dsmlink is like (enter amazing thing here) and piggyback is like (enter not so amazing thing here)...which do you like or want more.

if you don't want to get into tuning just yet, you can stick with the hairdryer and build a foundation for whatever turbo you want. Start with the upgrade guide on this site, that's what I did as i learned more and more about dsms as i went along the line.

before you pick a turbo to "settle" with, do research on that turbo and see if that turbo reaches your goals. From what i've read an e316g is a supurb street turbo and averages 300whp. If this does not satisfy you, then research which turbo will. I have no experience with the e316g, this is just what I have read.

Good luck with your decision. Keep asking questions.

 

[andymoraitis]

dsmlink is like (enter amazing thing here) and piggyback is like (enter not so amazing thing here)...which do you like or want more.

That's really funny. One of the best descriptions I've seen yet since it lets you insert whatever expletive or adjective you want. Nice touch.

 

[DSM_dreams]

That's really funny. One of the best descriptions I've seen yet since it lets you insert whatever expletive or adjective you want. Nice touch.

Very nice touch

 

[andymoraitis]

It really is. You could say something like:

[Using] DSM Link is like having sex with a hot woman and [using a] piggyback is like having to clip your grandmother's nasty toenails.

See what I mean? It just works.

Disclaimer: The piggyback similie is not a result of personal experience as I have never seen my grandmother's toenails and have no desire to. And no she never asked me to clip them so don't even go there.

 

[dino4g63]

A good cat-back exhaust system would be a good mod in your price range that future mods would benefit from and would free up a little power.

 

[VicBoost]

How about just having the 16g and putting the boost low. Or once you have the 16g you ABSOLOUTELY have to get bigger fuel injectors? But ya once you got bigger fuel injectors you got to learn how to tune! Also is it hard to tune and do you have to have a lab top? Because i was just thinkin of getting the 16g and then getting the support mods because on the tech guide it doesn't mention anything on the first stage about dsmlink.

 

[kronus]

How about just having the 16g and putting the boost low. Or once you have the 16g you ABSOLOUTELY have to get bigger fuel injectors? But ya once you got bigger fuel injectors you got to learn how to tune! Also is it hard to tune and do you have to have a lab top? Because i was just thinkin of getting the 16g and then getting the support mods because on the tech guide it doesn't mention anything on the first stage about dsmlink.

Eventually you will feel itchy and you will lay into the gas... I CAN VOUCH FOR THIS. Regardless of the situation you will need a way to control your fuel demand.

That's why. And how do you plan to tune to those larger injectors if have nothing to tune with? That's why as it's been said before:

Investing in tuning and supporting mods first is always the wisest choice.

 

[crazy_skier]

it may not sound fun but the proper way to build up your car is to start with tuning and you entire fuel system (this is usally the most skimped on area) and then do the upgraded turbo etc. I would personally invest in link, a walbro 255 rewired, afpr, 780cc injectors, and a wideband for the complete tuning. Also the reason for the 780cc is you will eventually need more fuel and with link you can make it run like factory with the huge injectors.

 

[Eastwood95]

um, why has no one mentioned for him to follow the tech section upgrade path? Dude, get a freaking turbo back exhaust, hard intercooler piping (at least the L pipe) with an upgraded BOV. You don't need any tuning for those mods, and they'll net you the extra ponies you're looking for, believe me..........

http://www.importtuner.com/powerpages/0109it_1999_mitsubishi_eclipse_gs_t/

There's another round of bolt ons with dyno results as well......

 

[DsmKid98GST]

um, why has no one mentioned for him to follow the tech section upgrade path? Dude, get a freaking turbo back exhaust, hard intercooler piping (at least the L pipe) with an upgraded BOV. You don't need any tuning for those mods, and they'll net you the extra ponies you're looking for, believe me..........

http://www.importtuner.com/powerpages/0109it_1999_mitsubishi_eclipse_gs_t/

There's another round of bolt ons with dyno results as well......

He could probably net those 40 ponies on his t-25 from upgrading his fuel supply / buying link with the cost of buying the parts you noted and still be better in the long run.

We didn't mention the upgrade section because we're giving him our opinion as he asked.

 

[spyderturbo007]

first upgrade - power or tune?

I vote for maintenance first!

 

[dsm4fun]

Have you done the free mods yet? Also this is just my path, but you are starting to upgrade so how about you hold off on tuning software and bolt ons for now. Upgrade your drivetrain such as get a new clutch and flywheel combo. This is as I said just another tuning path, but all this stuff will have to be replaced eventially with more power.

 

[calreef18]

Also, try and do mods that are compatible down the line, for example tuning, injectors, fuel pump, etc would be good since they can be used down the line with turbo upgrades, etc. Things like the o2 housing, exhaust manifold, and other parts that are specific to certain turbos you might want to wait on because they won't be useable further down the line. For example, if you plan on getting a fmic, think about the j pipe and if it will be compatible with the turbo you want to get eventually, etc etc. If not, you can hold off buying that and put the money somewhere else until it is needed.

 

[VicBoost]

Okay, I got most support mods such as full exhaust system 2.5" and downpipe. I got the intake all hooked up as well, HKS SSQ Bov. After that basically everything else is stock. So would I be better off to get dsmlink or the 16g and run on low boost. I know once I get the 16g i will need bigger injectors but thats if i wanna max it out right?

Also in the tech guide doesn't mention anything about dsmlink till the second stage 400hp+ section. I would rather get the 16g first and then fuel upgrades/ dsmlink. But you guys are the wise guys so help me out. Also i don't got a labtop and have no clue how to even tune are their ways i can learn and do i have to have a labotop for dsmlink. I would like to learn more about the program if their are any tutorials on it.

 

[VicBoost]

Anyone?

 

[funniegus]

maintenance, blow off valve, some free mods, fuel pump re-wire, logger.

 

[2gGSX]

DSMLink is by far one of the easiest systems to tune that I've seen. You move sliders up and down and is a very simple (but effective) interface.